We, The People, request Polyphonic Voice Groups

Just want NI to know that a growing number of Kontakt Owners have a major issue with the way Voice Groups handle the cutting off of notes. Kontakt's Voice Groups are too drastically monophonic, not allowing for any decay to pass through from the samples in the group (even the individual samples' decay is cut off by its own self!), making for very unrealistic sounding effects.

I've posted an example for any who need proof. This is the Sonic Implants Blue Jay Drums Soundfont being played first in its native Soundfont format, then the same Soundfont loaded into Kontakt. The Hi-Hats are Voice Grouped and the difference between the way the soundfont plays and how Kontakt plays it are dramatic (this is with no editing done to ADSR's, etc):

Hi-Hats - Soundfont

Hi-Hats Kontakt

How this could be considered acceptable is beyond me...nothing ecapes the wrath of the Kontakt Voice Groups - not even the decay of the Closed Hi-Hats!!

We would really like to see this flaw addressed in a future update. Kontakt is the bast sampler out there - but this feature seems so out of place in this otherwise superb device! I, for one, simply do not use the feature, and never will unless it's changed. I'm forced to use work-arounds!

Just want to post this 'petition', because in the Post "Key Off by another key ", KM posted a response from NI saying, basically, that "it is not a big problem for the majority of Kontakt customers as many of them do not need or use voicegroups in this way" (Hi-Hats). So let's find out if that's true or not! Everyone pipe up!

PS: this is no attack on NI - just an honest feature request.

 

EXCELLENT demonstration of the problem!!!
aip

 

Thank you, Sir!

Anyone else disturbed by what they hear?

 

Adding my voice (pun intended).

What we want is a variation of the existing voice groups feature that allows voice groups to mute each other but remain polyphonic.

Consider:

Voice group #1(Open Hi-Hats), voices-32, MuteGroup-1
Voice group #2(Closed Hi-Hat), voices-32, MuteGroup-Off
Voice group #3(Foot Hi-Hat), voices-8, MuteGroup-1

Voice group #4(Crash), voices-32, MuteGroup-2
Voice group #5(Crash-Mute), voices-2, MuteGroup-2

In the above example groups with the same MuteGroup number (group)will mute each other but still allow members of the same Voice Group to use all available voices. I can see a use for many Mute groups - at least 16.

 

We, The People, of many nations agree entirely

I agree fully. I've only had Kontakt for a couple weeks now, but the feature is one of the first that I noticed lacking. We *need* polyphonic mute groups. This is an essential for the hi hat muting process, and I can imagine other situations where it would be useful.

I think that mercury's description of how the feature could work is great. Not only would this allow better representation of some real instruments, but it would be another creative tool for the sound engineer/programmer.

bduffy, I *am* disturbed by what I hear. Or is it what I don't hear? Some of both actually.

Kontakt rocks, but 1.3 had better solve this problem.

 

bduffy - I have to compliment you on your choice of name for this thread. I can't see this going unnoticed

I am also pleased by the responses. Please, all of you who want this feature add a comment. "Me too" will do. The more individual replies the better. It would also be good to hear of uses other than hi-hat even though this is undoubtedly the most important to us.
This is especially useful where an alternative midi controller is being used and sustain is not easily transmitted/controlled by performance - i.e. drum pads, mallet, etc.

Other instruments that could use this feature are:

Triangle
Tabla
Timpani
Bass – synth/electric/acoustic, think sustained notes with a mute key that would mute when you change pitch. ..Sort of a mono-poly bass
Surdo
Congas
Tubular bells

This would also work well with loops. There has to be a few people using loops!
Enough from me. Please add to the list above.

 

hear hear,
I say ...me to
it is a important feature

 

Just adding my $2 to encourage this type of forum behavior. Excellent demo, and a reasonable request!

 

ahhh i see.. not good!

 

Me too )

 

I agree. This is something that is sorely lacking.

 

Polyphonic mute groups would also help with cymbal dampening. If say a ride cymbal is played loudly and then softly, the soft hit shouldn't cut out the loud hit. Then if you want to have a mute key, a key which plays a sample of the drummer dampening the cymbal, you need a polyphonic mute group.

 

Re: We, The People

I love that!!

 

Hello all!

This is my first post in this forum and would like to start off by adding my vote for polyphonic mute groups.

While I continue to be amazed at N.I.'s products (I own Kontakt, Battery, and Studio Drums), this particular issue has been sticking in my gut for some time now.

I originally purchased Battery for use as a dedicated drum sampler to be triggered from a drum module (in my case a Clavia Ddrum 4, although there are many Roland Vdrum users attempting the same thing). Battery worked pretty well, except for hihat and cymbal function. The existing mute groups didn't cut it. So I bit the bullet and bought Kontact around the time of the 1.2 update. I did this for several reasons (easier mapping,DFD,round robbin,piano samples,library options) but mainly for the advanced voice group functions. I expected them to provide the realistic hihat and cymbal choking options I was looking for. I was wrong. Even using my keyboard, there is no workaround available. Don't get me wrong, I use Kontakt for many other things, but I'm $500+ into this, and Kontakt still doesn't do what I initially bought it for. Realtime drum sample playback with realistic hihat and cymbal response. Polyphonic mute groups would solve this.

As to the matter of there not being that much interest in this feature, think again Native Instruments. Granted, it doesn't have the same broad appeal as DFD, better giga import, or OSX support, but check out www.vdrums.com (over 3000 members). The number one complaint of electronic drummers is the crappy sound of the modules. Short samples, lossy compression, low bitrates, artifacts, noisy DA converters and outputs, all of which make them virtually useless in a professional recording situation. More and more e-drummers are using their modules as trigger to midi interfaces and turning to hard and software samplers for sound generation. And they always get stuck when it comes to realistic hihats and cymbals. It's an untapped market. And sooner or later somebody is going to address this issue, whether it be fxpansion, gigasampler, halion, the new DFH2 VSTi, or some guy in his bedroom (a guy from the ddrum forum is coding a homebrew drum sampler/hihat simulator as we speak).

POLYPHONIC MUTE GROUPS IS MY NUMBER ONE FEATURE REQUEST. If implemented, I'll gladly pay for the update. It can't be that hard to pull off, and as mentioned by others, it has a multitude of other uses.

Power to the people!

Thanks,

Johnny

 

bump.

 

We the NI IPeople..

Yes we want,yes we need,NI heed...Rich

 

ME TOO!

Yes, this is a definite limitation. I just encountered it for the first time in some drum samples I was working on this week, and figured I just couldn't find the right setting and gave up.

I settled on a difficult-to-edit workaround.

So yes, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, and insure domestic tranquility, please add to 1.3!

Thanks,

Shane

 

Just wondering:
Is it difficult or lot of work for you programmers to bring the requested feature on (NI-Staff???)?

Cheers
Andi

 

Me too.

I cast my vote.

 

A great point and a great demo.

I cast ny vote but it doesn't appear that NI is involved with this forum.

I had an issue with the Kontakt demo "blue screening" me and it went unanswered by NI - your post started almost a week ago and no commment from NI.

For the time being. I will not buy this product based on what I have seen on this forum and issues with the demo.

Good luck to the group in getting NI to respond in an appropriate manner. Too bad - because it could be a great product but the lack of apparant support just makes way for more competition.