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What do you expect from the forthcoming "song layer"?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Mr36, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,810
    As briefly but specifically as you can (i.e., not just "finish a song in Maschine" or "make arranging easier", which are generally expected improvements), what are you hoping to be able to achieve with the song layer?

    I'm genuinely interested in the specific features, functions, and possible outcomes that different people will expect and want from it.


    Some thoughts provided already from some users and already a few common themes...
     
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  2. Mac Tinitus

    Mac Tinitus NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    278
    Me except nothing from Mr. Sound Layer .. because it's same as write a letter to Santa Claus .
    Real words... discussing it to death .I post it somewhere but don't find it so best you can do is
    IMG_3099.JPG
     
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  3. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,810
    Certainly a novel perspective. I think there might be uproar if the song layer is implemented, but actually does nothing though.

    I think Florian's point was more about them describing what song layer will be and having it discussed to death before we even try it out. This thread is for anyone to voice their opinions about what they personally expect the song layer to be and how they expect it to help them arranging in Maschine. Do you have any thoughts of what you'd want to be able to do with the song layer?
     
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  4. rocadaburn

    rocadaburn Forum Member

    Messages:
    155
    In addition to what Florian G wrote in his 'future of the sequencer' thread:
    I'd like to see a 'render morphing to song layer' Function:
    It would be great to have the Maschine Jam Lock snapshot function (including morphing) into Maschine for every hardware, not just Jam.
    And the be able to save the snapshots (more than 8....), place these in an order and render the morph between the snapshots into the songlayer.

    To make it even more great: the morphed automation shall appear in the linear arrangement timeline independently (like TheAndroid said...)

    It must not necessarily be 'Lock' and snapshots - as a first step, it would be nifty to be able to morph between scenes (like Jam ist able to morph between Lock Snapshots)...
    And then have the function 'render morph to song layer' generate the arrangement including linear automation lanes...
     
  5. Mac Tinitus

    Mac Tinitus NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    278
    No . Because I wait and see what's coming .Not Bad meaning but ..was only seeing words and one picture ..so all is possible . And looks like ,it's not this easy for Ni to build in .. so maybe they change or do things in other ways . + there is Jam .. maybe this new song layer has better integration with Jam . So just wait and after release we can discusse about Song layer .
     
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  6. Hiphopmoses

    Hiphopmoses Active Member

    Messages:
    218
    I expect nothing as well or maybe the thread will get locked ;)
     
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  7. GoGoGomez

    GoGoGomez NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    137
    My guess is the first iteration of Song Layer doesn't add any new functionality but simply acts as an enlarged container of its own events plus comprising multiple Scenes within it. Which would be okay as a start.
     
  8. SERCH-MILTON

    SERCH-MILTON New Member

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    20
    Unbind selecting group when starting a pattern from Jam..
     
  9. nrgb

    nrgb Member

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    46
    I expect to be disappointed. I hope to be impressed.
     
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  10. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,810
    Yeah, i know what you mean and kind of share that sentiment. I'm hoping to be proved wrong. However, what's the minimum the song layer would need to bring for you to be impressed?
     
  11. GoGoGomez

    GoGoGomez NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    137
    If Song Layer would act as a single large scene into which I can freely place other Scenes, I'd be happy, maybe not impressed.
     
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  12. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,276
    I hope and expect it to be worth the wait!
     
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  13. TheAndroid

    TheAndroid NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    298
    Something else comes to my mind but I might be influenced by my extensive use of Ableton Live: a better computer keyboard + mouse integration.
    Because I don't see arrangement being fully possible through Maschine controller and it's often soooo much easier to use a mouse to move, extend, draw, adjust, zoom etc... And it would also satisfy some travelling users (when you don't have your controller but want to work on your tracks).
     
  14. kcearl

    kcearl NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,710
    Having played with maschine for the first time in over a year...in fact Ive had it out five or six times recently I can only hope for whats already been said...the ability to place a part anywhere in the timeline. Dont get me wrong Jam has really opened maschine up for me, Ive started more projects in a week thatn Ive prbably done in maschines lifetime. But its static arranger really stiffles creativety...it doesnt kill it but it does leave you scratching your head to work around it.

    Its like having ableton with only a session view...the beauty is to build the foundation in session then arrange it in the arrangment view. Maschine could manage that all on the same page...but please dont break what we already have working. The jump to v2 nearly killed this off for me
     
  15. Big Phaddy

    Big Phaddy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    73
    I am fairly new to maschine and many of you who have been using it for years and years know the program inside out but for me the one thing that shocked me so much is the fact that a shorter pattern has to loop to the same length as the longest pattern in a scene and there is no way to stop that.

    E.g.

    If you have a 4 bar pattern in group one, then if you have a 1 bar pattern in group 2 it has to repeat 4 times to be the same length as the 4 bar pattern in group one.

    I really really could not believe this was true and thought I was mistaken. This to me is such an obvious design "flaw" and as it is 2016 I am sure this can be sorted.

    Also if you wanted to change the last bar in the pattern in group 2 you can add a different 1 bar pattern to the end without having to make a full 4 bar pattern for this.

    E.g.

    Group one has a 4 bar pattern
    And group two has a 1 bar pattern , if that could repeat only 3 bars and the last bar be able to be a different pattern.

    I know there are work around but to me those features should already be in the program and I honestly could not believe they were not from the start.

    I am hoping with the new song layer these "basic features" become implemented and it will greatly improve the program and workflow for everyone.
     
  16. wetdentist

    wetdentist NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    891
    i want to be able to record Perform FX automations with Touch Strips inside Maschine standalone (unless you can already do that, but i haven't been able to figure out how).
     
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  17. macchinista

    macchinista NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    327
    Based on the original hints from NI, I expected the song layer to work like Propellerhead Reason Song mode when using Blocks. In this case, the Scenes are the Blocks, and the Song layer at the top allows overriding any of the Scene data. This would work with both midi patterns (including placing empty clips to mute certain parts), and automation. Song layer clips would live in their own world, separate from Scene clips, and you could place, even record, these Song clips anywhere on the timeline.

    However, now that Jam is out, and so many people are being vocal about recording a "live" performance, I am not sure what's going to happen anymore. That separation between Scene clips and Song clips seem like an unnecessary complication. You first need to create Scenes, arrange those, and then record on top of it Song clips? What should really be a 1-step process, now becomes a two steps affair. It seems counter intuitive.

    So I am not sure how they are going to implement this anymore...and that's another reason why I am not jumping to purchase a Jam anytime soon.
     
  18. macchinista

    macchinista NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    327
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  19. b-righteous

    b-righteous Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,677
    It's already been stated you can record directly to song clips. You don't have to use scenes or patterns at all.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2016
  20. wetdentist

    wetdentist NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    891
    i tried doing it last night & nothing happened. is there some sort of step by step for accomplishing this in standalone?