When will this update be released

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by certifiedbeatz, Apr 17, 2017.

  1. terrybritton

    terrybritton Active Member

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    What strikes me about the range of opinions here is one set wants Maschine (standalone at least) to be as good as a DAW, and another set wants to squeeze that Maschine DAW inside another DAW as a VST -- having all the functionality of the standalone version of the Maschine DAW!

    A DAW inside a DAW. What a concept.

    (This modern age - due to the demands people make in it - confounds me sometimes.)

    Terry
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 1:46 PM
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  2. Moffit

    Moffit Forum Member

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    219
    I Just want a button that u press on Maschine that makes your track for u and uploads it to Soundcloud already mastered...Is that too hard to ask ???
     
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  3. District Onagi

    District Onagi NI Product Owner

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    687
    I agree that the requests are large, however I think most would argue that they would be more comfortable with one or the other because at least it is a direction, but we are in limbo and have neither. NI wants to have it's cake and eat it too. They want users to stay inside the software as long as possible so as to encourage people to continue to buy Maschine and have the software be of worth to the consumer, understandably. However, the sequencer is at a place where people don't want to use it at all (and even after these updates may continue to be so.)

    It seems deliberate that NI have held back improving Maschine's integration into other DAWs, even basic routing and having the ability to minimize Maschine's step sequencer once you have routed everything to your DAW.

    At some point, the other foot has to drop. They have created very expensive products that really only work as advertised when used within the NI ecosystem, but the problem is people do not want to use it in the ecosystem for many reasons... which is why these customers want to use their products in another DAW. If Maschine is only going to make specific arp and chord features a KK-only item, to use with only a KK controller, if you've paid the money for it, then you should be able to use it in other DAWs with the same functionality. I don't think that this is an unfair request given the parameters NI have outlined and set.

    For example, take a look at how Max for Live and Ableton Live Racks have free or inexpensive proprietary or third party effects, and how these allow any midi controller to do these things with ease. NI doesn't have to be exactly like Ableton (though it's hilarious to see what they choose to implement and use from them as inspiration and in the same breath hold many features that make people want to us Albeton back), but it's these little things that Maschine turns into large roadblocks. Ni wants us to buy KK keyboard (and to a lesser extent Maschine) or for exclusive features and then limit how and where we can use them. NI created this situation. It will be their fault if Maschine dies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 3:58 PM
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  4. dreddiknight

    dreddiknight NI Product Owner

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    994
    What strikes me about what you're saying is the binary stance of the statement. I get the impression, most experienced users do not want a DAW, and never have, just a better way to sequence, realtime time stretch, and a few other things that have been requested and discussed to death for the last 7 years.
    Those that use it as a plugin, want persistent settings when changing groups, and a simpler way to get their sketches into their DAW in a way that still allows editing of the original midi.
    These requests are not revolutionary or entitled, but simple and common sense. Especially considering the products Maschine is comparable to.
     
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  5. terrybritton

    terrybritton Active Member

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    299
    I said, "One set" and "another set", which does not imply there are no other sets of opinions present. So, not binary. I only pointed out those two sets.

    I do not understand wanting to use Maschine as more than standalone, except to use the packs in a linear Scene playback mode (with editing) as a portion of the production inside a DAW, but that is just me. I see that scenario as a nightmare for editing an entire song when that kind of work is required for the composition. I'd only want my own MIDI DAW tracks playing back the Pack's sounds in the ideal setting.

    NI is not presently "everything for everybody" - but art is all about working within limitations. A painting is constrained by the dimensions of the canvas, yet people make amazing paintings. The limitations define the creative possibilities, in a way. So, they are not negative things.

    I hope folks are getting stuff done and not letting this powerful musical instrument gather dust "until" their desires are all met! A limited device is a blessing, not a curse. Folks are doing everything on an iPhone, for goodness sake! Requiring a "DAW inside a DAW" or any other "perfect environment" seems a bit ridiculous, to me, for someone to be held back from. I see this as turning water into whine, frankly.

    That said, I do look forward to what improvements may appear, and these posts and discussions are useful to NI to help them mark their bearings and set a course. So, please do continue the discussion - just don't make it "everything or nothing" here - appreciate what you do have and work with that, is all I'm saying.

    Terry
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 4:23 PM
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  6. dreddiknight

    dreddiknight NI Product Owner

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    994
    I hear you :)
     
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  7. District Onagi

    District Onagi NI Product Owner

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    687
    I certainly hope so!

    Also, I do agree that working within certain limitations does make one be creative about having to do something.. I personally would prefer to keep everything in standalone, the only reason I want the option is if Maschine's sequencer does not improve dramatically. I believe the clamor for DAW integration would calm down dramatically if this were to happen. I won't know though until I see it and I assume the reason why NI is so quiet is because they are working on it... it's still quite frustrating though.
     
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  8. Kristyan

    Kristyan New Member

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    13
    We know that there is a lot of frustration, but because it's not released yet does'nt mean we are not working on it.

    Even if the request is very simple, it's not a matter of 3 days of coding and you actually wait 3 years allready, you can wait one or two more.
    Actually I'm sure you can wait forever, you're so patient and it's a quality that we appreciate from our customers.

    We also have all these things in the pipe that we want to finish first and that matters more for us.

    Have you ordered your Maschine Jam? It's very good, it has 8x8 grid pad controller so you can launch clip like in ableton (well, almost...).
    So you don't need ableton anymore!
     
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  9. Kristyan

    Kristyan New Member

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    13
    If you have a 2mx1m canvas to paint, say with watercolor painting, and I tell you "you can only use this coffee spoon to bring water from the closet to the canvas". Will it be limitations defining your creativity or just annoying bs?
     
  10. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

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    1,466
    Pretty sure they have been quiet because they are working on it. No matter what I think people will wait anyway. In the end when it comes all together I feel that maschine will replace other daws for the songwriting process. Various controllers that integrate with maschine.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 6:28 PM
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  11. terrybritton

    terrybritton Active Member

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    Well, naturally I would move my canvas closer to the closet if that were the case! ;)

    Terry
     
  12. D-One

    D-One NI Product Owner

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    234
    I agree, even thought I am on of those people which is ironic.. ikr. :)

    I have a take on why this problem happens so often: Trying to hard to appeal to different market targets and not having a very clear direction, is Maschine Stand Alone ever going to try to compete head to head with other things like Ableton Live? Or is gonna remain a Old-MPC-Like drum-machine? I don't know, and for me not knowing is a problem, i really believe the time to pick a clear path is now.

    If there is a clear path focus one can't complain about wanting something that the software/hardware is not claiming to deliver or ever will, not knowing whats going to happen gets people confused, frustrated and indecisive about their loyalty.
    On my personal case i am waiting for the sequencer update (maybe 3.0?) to decide if i stay in the NI-Closed (and very Apple-Like) environment or if i will have to move on to something else that better fits my needs.

    Reason for example was a super simple software back in early versions and evolved to a semi-daw, altho its not a full daw by any means it does have Audio tracks/Record & warping capabilities something that was unthinkable until version 5; but they added those things because they were losing all their customer base to the full DAW/DAWish competition. They started slowly by introducing Record, it was a "sister" nested application inside it to deal with audio tracks and it evolved and eventually merged into the software, smart strategy in my eyes.

    Totally off topic, but at the same time i fell like this is all related.
     
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  13. Kristyan

    Kristyan New Member

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    13
    UHHHH!?
    please please don't make this kind of statement, they risk to believe it!

    And in the end you'll be painting in a 1m large corridor instead of your super 40 m2 penthouse artist studio with a satin sofa for the chicks (and your musician friends).
     
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  14. District Onagi

    District Onagi NI Product Owner

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    687
    Who is this "we" that you are referring to? Are you an NI employee?

    If you are, I'd be very curious to know why you say that we no longer have a need for Ableton. Has Realtime timestretching been implemented? What about Linear audio? What about Linear automation? Improved song sequencing? Choosing pad color from the controller? Can you explain why using features with a mouse a painful experience or is controller-only or prohibitive unless you use a controller, yet a feature as banal (yet would make organizing a song and it's constituent parts much easier organization-wise) as being able to select a pad or group color only available from the software and not the hardware? In general, how has Maschine made the software experience easier to use when not using the controller in comparison to Ableton?

    If you are an NI employee, please educate me on these things because I'm at a loss to answer these. Unless you can answer these in relation to why we should not need Ableton or other similar software, I think people will continue to want to look elsewhere for music making purposes, or, at the very least, the ability to route what they do inside of Maschine into a DAW that can.
     
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  15. terrybritton

    terrybritton Active Member

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    299
    Heh... but you forget, I already have that penthouse artist studio (with satin sofa and chicks) in my DAW!!! :)

    Terry

    EDIT - (And besides, Maschine Standalone is similar to my DAW, though minus the satin sofa. A Vinyl sofa with foot rests is included, though! Maschine VST may lack that, but has a very nice recliner!.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2017 at 7:03 PM
  16. dreddiknight

    dreddiknight NI Product Owner

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    994
    They were joking :)
     
  17. D-One

    D-One NI Product Owner

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    234
    Didn't he mean "we" as customers/producers? Also Ableton is much more than a clip launcher, unless that was sarcasm and i didn't get it. :D
     
  18. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    6,825
  19. D-One

    D-One NI Product Owner

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    234
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Olihop

    Olihop Active Member

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    137
    The absence of a real time-stretching mode in the sampler of maschine in 2017 is an abberation !! Can we get this information back to the NI director to find out what he thinks? :D
     
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