When's 2.0 coming out?

If NI do make a keyboard + pad version it is a bit ridiculous to think they would consider making it a replacement. If we ever do see one it will be an optional hardware model. The Tabletop Maschine has a large customer base from MPC and groove box fanatics so that is not even worth speculating on.

I would personally love a keyboard version to consolidate my workspace vs sliding and spinning my chair around to play the keys. I like it all in one place so it's ergonomic. There is a market for this from the musicians that buy Motifs, Tritons ASR 10 etc.

I would also love a more robust desktop controller too. Something that better captures the essence of the Maschine concept of giving a hardware workflow with speed and ergonomics in mind. The current Maschine falls a tad short compared the the MPC imo. I think it could be improved with a few more buttons and larger tilt screen and still be very portable. This Maschine pro or whatever would be for those who don't obsess over how tinny the controller is or want to take it to Starbucks etc. but more focused on how it actually helps the workflow. It would cost a little more but it would not be much. It would be about the size of Traktor T2 but cheaper due to no built in audio interface.

This allows NI to keep the same base software and cater the controller to different needs like they do with Traktor. If the larger controllers had a slightly more feature rich Maschine Pro software then that would be cool too. I see no reason that the two could not coexist.

 

I appreciate that everyone has their 'ideal Maschine controller' in their head, but from what I can see, everyone's 'ideal Maschine controller' is different.

For example, NI put out a 60 key weighted Maschine controller with all the Maschine pads and knobs and an onboard 4-in 4-out soundcard. Now that's a very specific product, and would make some people very happy. But would it make enough people happy?

I guess if NI spot a gap in the market, where they can bring out a product that is 'near enough' to the 'ideal' for enough people to buy it, then we'll see it.

What I have not seen, is any kind of concensus.
---

Present Maschine owners still have a fully working supercomputer attached to their Maschine, the thought that features could be excluded from them simply because it does not have a dedicated knob displeases me greatly

 

I completely agree. There is not a consensus as some want something a bit different. That does not mean they should not try. There is certainly a market for a beefed up desktop model and also for a keyboard. Some want sound cards and some don't. If they do a desktop with sound card even though many don't want the card, I can see those who wanted the beefy controller buying it anyway and just using there own sound card. Even better, they can offer separate add on sound cards that can be installed on the new units.

For the keys they could make a 61 note synth and maybe a hammer with more keys as long as it's quality. I think the majority of the market that wants the keys are going to be a bit more picky so it has to be quality and a bit expensive either way.
---
I hear you about the features though. Just threw that out but it should not be necessary. The current controllers can just use shift and a little more paging to access any new parameters if needed.

 

So, wait, how many Maschines are they going to make?

(Also, as someone who's read more business plans, case studies, and market analyses than I care to think about, I can assert with a high degree of confidence that there isn't "a market" for a Maschineboard just because you and a couple of other people want one. In reality, trying to pursue every imaginable possibility, and chasing after markets where they don't exist, is what puts companies out of business.

Again, everyone has a right to their opinion of what their ideal next-generation Maschine would be, and even to speculate on what they think NI might do, but the fact that people buy Motifs doesn't mean there's a market for a keyboard workstation Maschine any more than the fact that people are now buying Dave Smith Tempests would mean that there's a market for an Analog Maschine. Which is to say, just as NI has never produced an analog anything, they've also never produced a keyboard. Why exactly would people who buy $3000 workstation keyboards want to buy their next one from a company who has never made a keyboard before?)

Also, I know this is nitpicky, but every basically every MIDI keyboard on the market is synth action. Even then, most 88 key models that claim to be "fully weighted hammer action" are a halfway point for someone who needs something that plays like a piano, but can't afford the real deal made by Kurzweil, Kawai, or a specialist shop that costs well over $2000. Fortunately, if you're not playing piano sonatas, that shouldn't matter. Unless you're the sort of person who has a habit of buying things because they sound expensive then convincing yourself later that they're of a higher quality.

 

you sir are a legend!
---
to all you complainers...

there is already midi keyboards. go and buy one... and plug it into ur stupid daw!

 

So we have forums members willing to spend money on an improved/revamped controller.....and then we have forum members that complain about these forum members that want a more robust controller. I can think of many words...legend not being one of them. Hater ( for a lack of better term) is the first thing that comes to my mind.....

I'm just sayin....lol

 

let me in

tellin ya'll, if beat thang can put a crappy laptop in an asrx shell, then native instruments can make that leap..............cut the umbilical cord homey

 

Fam was it a good idea for NI to make Maschine in the first place? This would actually be the first hybrid groovebox by NI. Would it have made since if someone was talking about NI making Maschine 3-4 years ago? Would you have thought that to be a good business move? Come on fam you almost had me with the "Coming from a guy who blah blah blah." Really fam I bet that Reason keyboard does well if it's not a p.o.s. It's just gear and at the end of the day we by these products to get a job done. I come on here because I like talking gear and music. Really think about it. We all have Maschine already. What about the people who are just starting? Why would anyone want to buy 2 pieces of gear dude? Wouldn't you rather have maschine and a keyboard in one? MPK 25-88 whatever in between? I could save desk space. Really I think those would outsell the original Maschine. Watch out if they add cc and let you configure the func. of Maschine I bet openlabs makes an over price maschine with a keyboard. I could care less if they make it or not I'm just saying you sound like the dude Matt Damon put in his place in "Good Will Hunting" lmao.

 

A business plan limits risks its not a line in the sand by any stretch.
Take the Mikro how many people asked for it or the Imaschine?
I thought the Mikro was a pointless idea a worse version of the full size controller but then thats just me.
Do NI do surveys to find out what customers actually want as any company would if they followed a strict business plan?
I think a software update to fix everything that needs fixing then some product options people want is a good thing.
Something called product growth I think its called
Akai brought out a keyboard and pad controller in one which sold well so its not such a bad idea.
It dont have to be over priced either.
Why not do a survey?
I think everyone agrees 1st thing to be done is get the software right.
A more chunky controller with some added knobs.
A version with a keyboard and soundcard built in.
Akai did have an expension board for outputs inputs so its not a daft idea.
Its about giving customers options so why not give them options.
I would happily buy a Pro version.
IM not a gear slut either.
---

Do you not use a Daw?

 

Got to agree with the gear lust comment. Personally, I don't want to spend more money (NI have had enough of mine already) on a new controller with an improved LCD or added keyboard - the present one is more than fine. Like I said, surely it's better to get the current software up to task before we start getting carried away (Maschine is great but far from perfect).

Shouldn't it be all about function over form?

 

That's actually a good idea, a little messy though. I still think an all-in-one solution would work best but a modular approach wouldn't be that bad for more knobs and stuff. For the keyboard? What would be the point. Unless NI comes out some suprt special keyboard module with crazy keys that no one else has, its just going to be another keyboard controller. However a fully integrated system that has happens to be a keyboard controller may be more enticing to people. Who knows at this point what NI has up their sleeves.

 

You're right that NI had never really made any hardware (aside from Kore) before releasing Maschine. It was definitely a risk. I think it was a risk worth taking, as no one had attempted "The Software MPC" yet, in the sense that there were sampling plugins, and USB pad controllers, but no all in one solution. Also, there was an inherent opportunity in the fact that the good controllers (Padkontrol, Trigger Finger) were afterthoughts in the minds of their creators (I'm not sure whether or not they were already discontinued by the time Maschine came out, I think at least the Trigger Finger was), and all that remained was the bullshit Akai line. There is no shortage of well supported MIDI keyboards with a wide range of features, at every imaginable price point, and "The Software Keyboard Workstation" has existed for years; it's called any MIDI keyboard and any DAW. The opportunity is less obvious here.

Look guys, I'm not trying to pick a fight, nor am I saying I necessarily have the answers. What I am saying is that if for some reason you've convinced yourself that there's "a market" for a Maschineboard just because you say there is, or because you want it to exist, you're the one who looks foolish.

So instead of just saying "yeah there's a market, of course there's a market" as if you can just will it to be so if you say it enough times, why don't you tell me where you think NI's opportunity is here? What's the uniquely positioned offering they can bring to market which buyers will find so compelling that NI will sell the tens of thousands of units required to break even, or ideally the hundreds of thousands of units required to turn a healthy profit? And why, in the middle of the worst global recession in recent memory, are those potential customers going to spend their money on NI's first crack at a keyboard rather than use what they already have or buy a comparable device from a more established player?

First, you can definitely assume that NI follows a very strict business plan. When you're making your first attempt at producing a line of hardware you generally have to take out loans to make it happen, and loan officers want to see an excruciatingly detailed business plan before you see that money, and once you get the money they want absolute confirmation that you're sticking to the script. Also, they're German. Who better exemplifies "strict adherence" than the Germans?

More to the point, like many other people much smarter and more experienced than myself, I'm of the opinion that if you ask your customers what they want, they lie to you. They tell you what they like the idea of but would never actually consider buying. They tell you what they would buy if they were the idealized version of themselves they hold in their minds. They tell you what they think you want to hear, or what they believe will make you think they're clever, or well informed, or whatever.

So you sort of have to trick them into giving you the information you need. If they think they already know what you're asking about, then you're already fxcked. So, you don't really want to ask them about the product you want to make, at least not explicitly.

Let's say it's 2007, and NI is well into product development but hasn't yet started production, and maybe they haven't yet made a decision about whether Maschine is only going to work with a computer or whether it'll also work as a standalone device. They'll ask questions like "Do you use an MPC?" "Do you use your MPC as a MIDI controller for software?" "Have you used a USB MIDI pad controller?" "As compared to using your MPC, how satisfied are you with your experience using MIDI controllers with software?" etc.

There are two biases you're trying to avoid by not stating things outright. You want to avoid putting ideas into your customers' heads and causing them to tell you about want they think you want them to want, rather than what they actually want (and more importantly, would actually buy). But ideally you'd be asking your customers these questions before you've determined what you're going to make, and asking open-ended questions may provide you with information you've never considered that may influence the product design. Basically, you want to allow your customers to potentially present you with useful ideas without introducing your own biases about what you're pretty sure the product should be.

So, back to that hypothetical from 2007, maybe NI would have assumed that they would specifically be targeting MPC owners, but found that most of them said they weren't interested in bringing a computer into the workflow, but there was an entirely different group of underserved customers who were already using a computer, wanted an MPC-like experience and were dissatisfied with the options that were available. Or perhaps just the opposite, that the MPC heads said "Sure I love my MPC, and I guess it's nice that it's portable, but really I use it at my desk most of the time, and there's already a computer at my desk, and my computer is a much more powerful computer than my MPC is, and all my one shots and samples are already on my computer..." and so that would have had some impact on how they designed and positioned the product.

To get back on topic, I think the next revision should absolutely have an audio interface. As it pertains to the keyboard specifically, I think they would need confirmation that at least 20-30% of the people who would otherwise buy Maschine would at least consider buying it to make it worth the cost of production, and even then they would need to have a sense that those people would be willing to pay 1.5x-2x for the keyboard version to justify cannibalizing the pre-existing product line.

 

we seem to forget that the NI userbase is much larger than this forum, this forum doesn't even make up probably 50% of the people that use the products on a daily basis.

People that question "how many actually wanted an iMaschine or Mikro?" are actually fooling themselves if they think there were not people requesting those items.

NI is not just going to put something out because it "seems cool", especially when it comes to new products.

Again, I do not see what is so hard to comprehend about having multiple form factors or models in the Maschine product line. A new controller doesn't mean software will not be updated or "fixed" and it doesn't mean a replacement.

There is room for multiple models. Many companies make multiple models of their midi controllers, the advantage for NI is that they have a fully integrated production software to go with it.

They can absolutely cater to different user types. The question is, which will they choose.

Again, the NI userbase is vastly larger than the requests seen on this forum, that you can sure of. NI has multiple outlets and streams of feedback that they are tapped into.

Everyone should just keep sharing ideas, keyboard, no keyboard, interface, no interface, bigger, smaller, color screen, tilt screen, whatever.

It's all relevant no matter what side of the discussion you're on, it's all healthy for the Maschine product line.

 

If we're 50% of the customer base, NI is going out of business. I'd say 5% is probably closer to reality (in terms of people who post regularly, not someone who showed up once to ask a single question then bounced).

Amen.

 

LOL...I was just making a point that this forum is not representative of the large user base, I would say it's probably small as well, under 10% for sure. But my point is, we can't base what "the users want" off of the few requests we see here. That goes for both sides.

Just because people didn't see a lot of requests for a smaller controller or iMaschine product on the forum, they assume no one was asking for it...this couldn't be further from the truth.

That's the point I was making, I know this Maschine forum is no where near half of the Maschine users out there lol.

 

Yeah, I mean, the fact is you said "under 50%" anyway, so if we're getting into semantics, I'm definitely the asshole here (although I doubt that was ever in question).

Either way, I'm glad you got a laugh out of it.

 

ahahaha, I didnt take it like that at all lol, defnitely just sayin I agree with you, this is a very microscopic collection of NI users in the big picture.

So it's really hard to say what people are asking for all over, it's obvious that people on the go, live performers, djs, etc, as well as those hesitant with the price of the original were interested in the smaller, more economical Mikro, so who knows what else NI has in the works.

I love these discussions, I love both sides of the discussion and think they are both vital to progress

In the end, NI will do what they feel is best for the company and it's product line, so I say anything we all can do to help steer that, by providing opinions for or against certain features, is good.

 

Agreed on all counts.

So here's something else I want in the NouveauMaschine I can't imagine anyone else cares about.

Either:

1. An AC port for a wall wart (good) OR a built-in power supply with a standard cable (better) OR an optional battery adapter (best) so I can plug it into my iPad and use it to control apps or send MIDI wirelessly to the Network MIDI session via CoreMIDI.

or

2. The battery idea, minus the iOS middleman, plus a built-in wifi transceiver and the ability for the entire Maschine protocol to operate over wireless OSC/MIDI (this would be especially useful in a next-gen Mikro).

 

mmmmmm wireless midi......

 

All this talk about adding a keyboard or a new controller or asking about features shows that people are excited about maschine and it's future.

It also shows that most of you need to calm down on the expectations.

Carry on.