Why do you think NI went mute on song layer?

You do now yes..but you didn't previously

 

Ah, okay. But should indeed be a reason for further development.

 

Maybe this is practice for introducing a succesful muting of midi events within Maschine..........................................

 

Not necessarily. I think the idea behind including a cut down version of Maschine is to get people to buy a Mikro or Mk III further down the road.
They are very clever at giving free stuff, that entice people into their various eco systems where they will inevitably spend more later.

 

This is could be an argument, too. At the end, hard to say what is going on at the headquarters.

 

they do now, maschine essential. and indeed they do not work well with only a keyboard.

i understand what you are saying, but i get the feeling, that they are trying to get you a maschine kontroller..

and maschine is also a gateway to sounds.com, but also komplete kontrol. so... (i do not own a keyboard from NI, i like my novation too much...)

it is just guessing, based on a feeling. maschine is the thing that can get all instruments together, of NI. and other companies..

"Can I get a Kerching Brothers and Sisters???", that statement is out of my league (is that the right phrasing?).....

i repeat i have the feeling that are zooming in... see the expansions in komplete 12 ultimate, and the ultimate-ultimate-ultimate...

but i can be wrong.

and never overestimate managers/ceo's, the are redundant. i mean that. so the vision they have might be very blurred. i do not have a great admiration of so-called top-managers, or ceo's, to say it nice. i see in them, stumbling, blindfolded people.

so i can be wrong, that there roadmap is, not a map at all, just folded paper...

what a company needs is real people, and there are real people within NI. in every company, they possess the real oversight.
and in most companies they have to fight, against; strange visions, goals, net worth, etc.

 

I think part of the reason for all the expansions in Ultimate is a lack of new or updated products but also they seem to be going for the 'mass market' and appealing to people with little 'musical' ability and drawing them in. Nothing particularly wrong with that except it appears to be at the expense of listening and acting on the desires of long term users. They are also short selling the newer users by making the products appear to do a lot more than they actually do in their current state, something that might not be totally in anyones long term interests.
I think it's good they are bringing the keyboards and Maschine closer together but then I never understood why they were so far apart in the first place.

 

what you are saying is perhaps more plausible, or perhaps; it is more likely what i am saying. i think you right. o well, there must be time that i can be wrong...

EDIT: there is a great market for loops, and also look at ableton live, the packages you already get (but i didn't install them, only the basic ones.. drumkits, and m4l stuff).

there is even a cload based, subscription thingy, which loads loops, you can edit some stuff, but basically all is there. was it presented here, i do not remember the name.
and integration of sounds.com but deeper, very deep, the loops are the basis, so the other way around...

EDIT 2: if people want to make music that way, why not. i personally, i want to make my own samples, even if they exists already, i want to make my own presets, i like sound design.
it is basics of how i make music. but that is my way of working, that is my pleasure.

 

I think it's important to remember that, for those of us who have had Maschine for ten years or more, the idea of them having to do a rewrite is ludicrous in the extreme.

This "from the ground up rewrite" happened already; when it was upgraded to version 2. They wrote it with all the most user requested features in mind and they were all on the roadmap / just around the corner / being worked on etc.

That was around 6 years ago so...
Yeah, don't hold your breath...

 

sorry to chime in "unasked" - and as a newbie to NI products (synth-freak and DAW user since the first days of VST here...).
your statement above about "selling products which appear to do a lot more...." is absolutely true.

i got part of the "NI-Family" a few weeks ago - first investment was a JAM - because i needed a controller with lots of buttons fo FL Studio's live-performance-mode....(hey, getting lots of buttons and very nice drumsounds together is never a bad decission, is it? .

i fell in love with maschine software together with JAM. a dream came true.

bought an MK3 and komplete 12 a few weeks after my love with JAM/Maschine software began. because of the advertising of it. and the promise to control your whole studio from MK3. and the bonus of an included interface....blablabla. i was conviced it will be THE SOLUTION to all my music-making-needs in addition to the lot i allready have ;-)

but, the dissapointmens started soon:

- audio-interface noisy - for sure not a top level product - no replacement for existing interface
- midi-problems (the known bug on Windows) - lots of crashes after spending lots of "cashes"
- limitation of "SONG-mode"...

so i share all your bad feelings you are discussing here. not the best experience as a new NI-product-owner....

But you know what?

--> i solved allmost all of the shortcommings of Maschine software with FL Studio
--> No, not the usual "i am using maschine inside my DAW"

but

--> By using FL Studio as a plugin inside Maschine (actually only using it to have umlimited freedom in placing long audiorecordings / samples etc. etc....

so if you own FL Studio (which you should ;-) ) - use it...

 

May I should give it a try...know it only from the days of fruity loops. What is the difference between fruity and producer edition?

Edit: After a few short looks at it, it looks a bit to toy-ish for me. Didn't get into it years ago. And would probably not now. Not my kind of toolset

 

FL Studio 20 has really improved. Spent about a week with it. Haven't used it since FL 12. I think I will get FL Mobile (will use this and Imaschine). It's very fast for beatmaking. I prefer it to Ableton and others in that regard.

 

For the song layer, I don't know. I think it will be good though or whatever they come up with.

 

Why didn't you get the Akai Fire. My kids a FL studio guy and I got him fire. He totally digs it. Works for him really well and it's made for FL.

 

Interesting thread. How is what NI are doing any different than what Steinberg or other vendors do to suck you into their ecosystem? I don't think there is a difference. If you like the way NI stuff sounds and works ... Just buy it . In the end, it's not the tool you have, but what you do with it .

 

why? - because i wanted more buttons - for longer stepsequenzing / pattern selecting and all that stuff. and in the end - THE SOUNDS too (i spent my whole life trying to synthesize my drums and stuff like that - i wasn't creative anymore..). now i got Jam together with thousands of drumsounds for a few bucks more than just another midi controller or FIRE (maybe later? ;-) )

everybody who legaly bought a FL Studio license years ago - like me - just can upgrade for free as usual - with a loooot of niiiice stuff - especially the synths, playlist, complete freedom and ofcourse the pianoroll which beats everything - imo (i bought it in V3 - now we are at v20 (its day and night)

 

absolutely - it could have been other "toys" - i entered NI's world and bought jam, komplete12, mk3 all in a few days/weeks ..

my OP sounds a bit too negative maybe?

because in the end: i love all my musicmaking tools / software - and all have "mistakes" - and so do I - believe me guys ;-))

 

you NEED producer if you really want to use it the way i describe it above - otherwise you cannnot put AUDIO-samples directyly into the playlist (complete freedom and joy) - you would have to load everything AUDIO into channels and trigger them (Maschine-without-real-song-layer-style).

the playlist of FL can be used within maschine, because its the only DAW i know of that offers an VST-version of itself - so you can load FL Studio into maschine (as i doo) and have "real song layer sample placement possibilities" and still have the ease of using maschine....

like this (attachment) - maschine standalone - and one of the groups is up to 16 channels of "FL studio freedom" - my solution to the missing real freedom in maschine when it comes to "sounds between the scenes", so to speak ;))

i tried it the "usual way" - maschne as VST in FL. i didnt like the disconnection from my old "FL worklfow" and missed the "ease of use i was getting used to in maschine"....so i once tried it the other way - and i would never go back (for the creative / producing part -----

 

sorry to all for offtopic. should have opened my own thread: the I love maschine wiith bit of FL? (mods, is this still possible? that i make my own thread out of this "offtopic discussion?" thanks for any help)

 

It's not so much bad feelings as frustration and 'song mode' is quite minor compared to how garbage the so called automation system is,
the lack of event mutes, selection processes that are a joke etc etc etc etc etc etc.

Interesting I've never used Fruity Loops. I'm slowly getting into Reaper and MuLab which is enough to be going on with for now. (BTW folks.. many think that MuLabs new time stretching solutions are better than any of the competition)