why does NI implement absolute NONE of the requested features in the updates?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Frank P., Jun 27, 2019.

  1. Frank P.

    Frank P. NI Product Owner

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    302
    ok, everything needs a little bit of time. and I don't talk about big changes like DAW features.

    I talk about things that are not so complicated to add.
    things like Beat grid for sample editing, Humanize improvement, retina support, custom Chord Sets, Pattern Splitt, Adjustable Pattern start, Plug In Delay Compensation...

    nearly nothing has implemented from Smaller Features/Workflow enhancements. since month/years.

    NI, don't you want to give us some litte adds from the list from time to time?
    That would be cool !

    And thanx again for the great Idea of Maschine. I still love it.
     
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  2. Slappz

    Slappz NI Product Owner

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    338
    What I'm tripping on is that I was just reading on how the "new" song layer was suppose to be in beta, years ago. How can they still get back on here and just skip the big question. How does a major feature like that just disappear?
    Why keep your best users, that hang out in your forums supporting you, in the dark for so long? Can't they just say, hey sorry plans changed, but we're working on something really great?

    I see they can crack down on users getting overzealous in their critique of them, but they can't crack out the dirt in their own eyes. We could only wish that they applied the same zeal to user requests, as they're doing with certifiedbeatz
    /js
     
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  3. j.silva

    j.silva NI Product Owner

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    For a while now NI's priority is with soundsdotcom. Along with splice they are gonna save the world from evil sample based thief producers and vst pirates. Meanwhile FL Studio has become a monster DAW / Beat production software with every feature you can think of. Imagine when they actually release (a proper) pad based controller / keyboard unlike that Akai Fire bs.
     
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  4. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    I was all in on maschine for years then i had enough sold my controllers.. then i still had maschine so i bought A25 just to use with my expansions.. they don't like criticism they like users to pile on the one complaining.. i spend over a thousand on studio another 6 hundred plus for K61 then another buck fifty for A25.. i think i have a right to speak my mind..
     
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  5. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    721
    I think comparing FL Studio to Maschine is a little like apples and oranges. FL Studio has been around for more than twenty years, Maschine has just had its tenth anniversary in May. FL Studio began as a DAW, Maschine began as a hardware-focused production workflow. The fact that you can run Maschine within a DAW says a lot about the target audience for the product, IMO. I don't think Maschine is attempting to be a DAW. The focus is giving you as many features as possible in hardware because hardware control means efficiency when done right.

    See it from my perspective: for years, I used Pro Tools HD, whilst Pro Tools was/is/was/is the industry standard for audio (especially in post), but as I started working on more composition and production projects, I started finding Pro Tools quite limited versus Ableton Live, so I swapped over to Live with the original Push for a while, it was OK, but the lack of surround sound support and very poor support for video made it irritating to work with even when using ReWire, particularly the lack of comping/takes, even with Live 10. Anyway, I like that Maschine brings a familiar compositional interface to any DAW. Whilst I use Reaper as my daily driver for almost everything these days, there are times when I'll go to a client's studio and they'll be using Cubase/Nuendo or Pro Tools, and it's great to just plug in and get started, though more commonly these days I'm using Reaper in its "portable" state combined with Maschine. Regardless, that familiarity is important, that's why PT became the standard; didn't matter where you were working, you already know the workflow and can just get on with your job.

    One of my colleagues is legally blind, one of the areas that NI are absolutely nailing it is accessibility. Maschine combined with the KK are frankly awesome for him. Most DAWs and software in general for audio has absolutely dire support for blind users. Not only is the Maschine and KK a great hardware interface, the accessibility features are really quite brilliant.

    Different strokes for different folks, different tools for different tasks. Are there areas for improvement in Maschine? Absolutely. Likewise, if you asked me to use FL Studio then I'd frankly laugh. It's fine for certain tasks, but it's borderline useless for making music for modern games because of the lack of support for video game middleware and ambisonics, and equally questionable for sound design, scoring to picture, and for post. For beat making and basic mixing and mastering? Sure, great. If you want to participate in the industry/capitalism, you need to be able to do certain tasks and do them quickly. FL Studio is more about making traditional music, the industry has expanded far beyond that, and it's just as well, because most traditional studios are becoming a thing of the past because hobbyists do it all at home.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
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  6. Slappz

    Slappz NI Product Owner

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    338
    I think you have the issues conflated, and instead separate them and make it a win/win situation. Of course you can criticize them all day on a public forum, but you are posting defamatory comments on the company website. I think the company reserves the right to do a lot of things, and one of them I'm sure is to be able to moderate such comments.
    They even said that they appreciate both positive and negative feedback, and yet you still here to plead your non-existent case. They didn't ban you, and they were so kind to explain to you that the company forum is not a free-for-all to get all buckwild with unsubstantiated rumors. We get the frustration, but I don't think the developers are running the company, so why dump on them calling them unprofessional at all. There's no need to make it personal like that, unless you do know something that we don't.

    I'm not trying to knock you or anything, I just don't think that you have all of the right you think you have, and they've kind of have been extending them for you. I could be wrong here, but you seem like a nice person, and sometimes even when we're right, we're wrong.
    That's like them trying to call you out, and even though they may be right, they wrong addressing that issue before the other more pressing issues from years ago. Sure handle your business, but features and fixes that were promised years ago, don't seem to ring a bell to them. NI kind of should be embarrassed for announcing a "song layer" that seems to have fallen off the face of the earth.

    So really in the end is tone it down a little bit, and NI has to tone it up some. Win/win, what do you think?

    Edit: I don't think that's too much to ask from a great person, or too much to ask from a great company. /js
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2019
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  7. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    1,038
    Agree
     
  8. scheffkoch

    scheffkoch NI Product Owner

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  9. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    Im wondering if any consideration has been given to the idea that their internal development staff may very well indeed either not be given any of these suggestions OR they have and are working on juggling fixes and/or updates in their, I’m assuming weekly dev sprints, and some features or suggestions would require major refactoring of the code base in order to see some new features through and quite possibly management is getting in the way and saying no?

    There always seems to be misguided assumptions surrounding software development in the fact that it’s “easy” or very hollywood’esq in which a few keystrokes and as if by magic something amazing is able to be accomplished.

    Believe me I’d like to see some of the great feature suggestions implemented as well, I also realize that from a development perspective there are other blockers, technical or human factors, that prevent or delay at length, great ideas.
     
  10. lwj|localspace

    lwj|localspace NI Product Owner

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    303
    ...and the boardroom went: "HARRRUMPHH HARRRRUMPPHHH"

    Which roughly translates as:
    “There’s an opportunity to translate Native’s values into behaviors that further enable positive culture and embody diversity as it relates to embracing our differences."
    “However, we now face our biggest challenge to date: to redefine the industry with the emergence of a truly connected and accessible ecosystem of tools, sounds, and services, enabling everyone to make music."
     
  11. Kaldosh

    Kaldosh NI Product Owner

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    1,345
    Informative, but I don't see why it would make me more confident that, things are finally going again in the right direction.....It must be hard indeed to work constantly under criticism , however, most of them, which are most complaints, are unfortunately well deserved somehow, but it really feels like no matter what, there is a plan, and customer's important feature requests do not seem to be a part of it...or at least, it is not difficult to understand why it seems that way, and people to feel like that
     
  12. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,240
    Stop moaning.
    This is all addressed in the open letter ;)
     
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  13. Kaldosh

    Kaldosh NI Product Owner

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    :Doh yeah sorry, I already forgot :p
     
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  14. macchinista

    macchinista NI Product Owner

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  15. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    213
    Just don’t convert to some silly cloud based subscription system.

    Well....

    “Developing an employee experience that attracts and retains the best talent will be key and I look forward to starting what’s sure to be an exciting journey.”
     
  16. scheffkoch

    scheffkoch NI Product Owner

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    555
    ...imo it's still unbelievable that such a marketing desaster like the open letter and all the other false promises regarding maschine happened...
     
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  17. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    6,505
    It's kind of hard to tell what goes on in such a huge company.
    For as long as I'm here I've never seen user feedback taken into account seriously, it seems to end up in a magical low priority list while NI keeps setting new high priority tasks, so the gap between users desires and the company's plans have just been getting bigger and bigger. It's sad that the userbase of a product has had zero impact on it's development, it feels like a "we know what's best and you dont" attitude even if that's not the intention, even though this is my perception as a User, it doesn't necessarily mean it's 100% true, there could be a valid reason for what seems like disregard but I guess will never know.

    With that said ever since Toby and Kai have been around active (idk if they are new in the company or newly assigned to the Maschine team) I have noticed a desire to address user feedback that I haven't seen before (public quote here on post 33) so I have a little hope that after all the 2.8+ mess has been cleaned up and sounds.com is a bit more mature and out of the way we might see some highly requested stuff happening.

    I think there's are a lot of people inside the company with the exact same ideas as many users out there, hopefully, those ideas somehow happen sooner rather than later, if you check the hackdays blog post video you will see a Maschine idea with what looks like audio tracks and a "Kontakt running NKS instruments?" idea, I imagine there were a ton of other great ideas there...
    It doesn't mean they will actually happen soon but it shows there are motived people there that dont think that much differently than us (users) and actually "care", not just monsters that want to deceive you and want your money.
    [​IMG]

    I love how the 2nd reason under "WHY" is simply: "users want this!", right after "growing the eco-system". Win-Win in a business sense and userbase desire.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2019
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  18. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    1,038
    Don't say that you might get the attention from sensitive Mods..

    I like to tell things like they are. Not just say your the best.. how can one improve if all you have are yes man!
     
  19. Slappz

    Slappz NI Product Owner

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    338
    Well NI where are you now when the natives are getting restless, when you call yourself Native Instruments? Yes we may knock NI on the chin a few times, but we only trying to knock some sense into you. We don't want you to forget your roots, and want you to remember where you came from.
    We helped build this company and helped fill your coffers to fulfill some of your biggest dreams, and in return we can't even get some of our simple request fulfilled. Come on Dan the man, you can do better!
     
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  20. lwj|localspace

    lwj|localspace NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    303
    That's kind of what I'm expecting them to do though. It's fine by me as long as the option to buy is still there.

    It's not that hard for me to tell what's going because NI is actually NOT a huge company. The industry is not that big. And I know what damage control looks like. I used to do it. It's not hard to figure out the strategy, because it's the same dumb ass short sighted strategy everybody in let's just call it the entertainment industry is following. NI wants to become a content provider. It's all about integrated platforms and serving you piecemeal chunks of content on a regular basis. Drip, drip, drip. NI doesn't want to sell synths.. it wants to sell you an experience.. the future of music and music making, because it thinks it has that figured out for you. To keep you just interested and engaged enough to wait around for the next drip.

    It's a fundamental miscalculation though, the market for music making isn't headed that way. Producers are not consumers. But that's getting into a larger diatribe about where culture and technology is going and I'm just Alex Jones with a silly hat on. GAY FROGS!!! NI should consider hiring me as their creative consultant.
     
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