Why don't you prefer only Maschine for production?

Thanks! Well... As a sketch tool, I have to say Maschine is the best thing I ever used/seen it's only as a Production Suite that it starts to fall short.
I could go on and make 10 other majorly important points but... whats the point? We discuss these things amounts each other as passionate musicians and Maschine costumers often, some have valid points others not so much but at the end of the day it doesn't change anything.

I wish NI would hire a team of producers that are on a more advanced platform as advisors, basically for development consulting, or maybe did some surveys once in a while to be more in touch with customers desires.

 

hey Johnnyjay So let me start by saying that when I was a kid I interviewed this relatively famous musician and he said the greatest thing to me " limitations FORCE creativity" there are some workarounds available to you - if you want to think outside of the limitations you're having. Pretend that you know the workaround already and tell me how you would go about it. If that doesn't help you ( and I hope it does) I could learn more about your setup and walk u through.

 

What you're missing is the whole point of which Maschine was created and what it is. It's not a tool designed to make a full song, it's a tool to make instrumentals that later on are mixed and recorded over, this is how Samplers/Drum Machines always were since ever, MaSchine is no different.

In your case putting a couple of vocals on top of a finished beat might be enough for a full song, for a singer that records multiple takes, harmony choirs, add lips, dubs, and all sorts of stacked vocals and needs 20+ tracks just for vocals recording to Maschine is unthinkable... Not to mention using send fx to mix is a pain... Now imagine a song with 3 singers.

Worry not, Audio tracks are being worked on and maybe you will have what you specifically want soon while everyone else who wants actual production features instead of DAW-Recording-Mixing ones wait for the development to return to what Maschine was actually created for in the first place...

 

Yeah, you're right D-One. It's something we often see, a temptation that all software would finish to embed all the aspects of their market. Bitmap features requests in a vector software, then why not go for page layout/printing and font design/editing features etc The text editor/sheet/drawing/page layout/math editor syndrome. At the end, you often get a big fat mammoth, not so good in every domain, losing its personality and the strength of the view of its creators.

But it's also true that from the beginning (well almost), many people were expecting NI to dive in the crowdy DAW market, and some still do. And as Maschine is what looks the closest to a sequencer environment... :-/

 

It will eventually dive in the DAW market simply because people are demanding it regardless of it making sense or not but before that happens the core basic stuff has to be far more developed otherwise we will just have a Software full of half-finished features. Less features that work really well is way better than a million features that work poorly.

 

Why don't you prefer only Maschine for production?

I use Maschine and other programs as well as many analog devices as instruments. In some cases I export wav files from maschine and import them into protools to finalize some projects while in other cases I use Maschine as a plugin in ProTools and Logic. It all depends on the project I am working on and what tool best fits the desired output. I have issues with Maschine, Ableton, Logic and a couple others that are frustrating at times but like a mechanics toolbox you find a tool for the application that works and you succeed.

 

When you think about it, Maschine is actually a fantastic multi instrument: it can be a drum machine/drum synth, it can be a fairly advanced sampler, it can be a multi-timbral synth, it can be a very flexible FX box, now it can also be an audio looper.... and it comes with its own sequencer!!!..... unfortunately, that's where all the good things stop

Seriously, I don't think I could only ever use Maschine for production, but I would love it so much more if there was a way to capture and edit a performance (scene and pattern changes, lock states, knob movements, etc) in the sequencer. That's been a feature request on top of my list for years and I am still patiently waiting for that day to arrive when it is implemented.

 

Maschine, Komplete Kontrol is just fast for me. On top of that having Omnisphere, AIR instruments instruments in NKS with sound previews makes it even faster. I'm for workflow and speed more than a bunch a features and a cluttered interface. Tried a bunch of different sequencers, and nothing is as quick as NI's ecosystem.

You can absolutely do full arrangements in Maschine. It can be done for sure. It depends on the user. Some can or can't. But proof it can be done coming from the hip hop side a la DDS, Lex Luger (who used Jam/Maschine MK 3/ KK to produce full beats in Maschine), Andrew C adsr, The Freshmen etc. If your coming from a cubase, Studio One, and your trying to do vocals and complex songs gotta have a better understanding for what Maschine is about.

Maschine will be a sequencer that will give you enough tools so where you wouldn't need to open Ableton to finish your arrangements. This will be getting built piece by piece.They know what we want, but they won't put out anything until it's ready. This will take time. I know yeah "I waited for five years". Got get the audio right first, and I guess we will see what's next. So for now I use Maschine for for it is/can do, and it's strengths. I don't try to use it for something that's it's not. So having something to compliment it makes it easier.

 

because the patterns and scenes workflow complicate things in the worse way. i cant wait for them to iron it all out. i really would like to use maschine only

 

Without it Maschine would no longer be a Drum-Machine... it would be a DAW controller for a Software that is not a DAW.
Every drum-machine has a form of patterns/scenes, MPC's have programs and sequences for example.

There's a reason drum-machine-like controllers are very hands on while DAW's are very keyboard/mouse oriented even with dedicated controllers. Take Push2, for example, it's great at Session View (which is comparable to patterns/secnes) but once you get into Arrangement View it loses half its functionality if not more.

 

No one can question if its possible or not, of course it's possible, there's no need for any "proof"... but it's just not very practical compared to other popular platforms. You can also record a full orchestra directly to Maschine, that doesn't mean it's practical to do so.

It's also possible to do a full beat+arrangement in drum machines from the 80's and 90's the proof is in all the producer that did it, no need for names... But not only the standards are now much higher but the genres expected to be covered are much broader. We are very far from the days where drum machines/samplers are only expected to do simple repetitive music.

The typical Rap beat is by norm very simple only having a super low number of patterns and sections, zero automation, the arrangement is mostly turning sounds on and off, theres no fills, no transitions, no odd time signatures, etc.. so it's not much of challenge and can easily be done within Maschine alone, other more complex stuff not so much. I am not diminishing Rap beats at all, I am a Rap producer myself but facts are facts. Beats meant to have a Rapper cant be too complex to keep the attention on the lyrics but for instrumental music that is constantly changing it's another story. Future Bass, Dubstep, Drum&Bass, EDM-Trap, producers rarely use or are even interested in Maschine for example.

 

This is an odd statement since you say "will be". "Will be" was like 3 years ago now. And I won't argue that you cannot finish full songs/arrangements in Maschine. I've done it several times. But its funny that you mention "fast" because for me finishing a song in Maschine is about as exciting as watching paint peel. Its cumbersome, annoying and frustrating. I'll say it again, the Maschine sequencer is not flexible and is riddled with limitations on what you can do with audio, MIDI and automation on the timeline. And while Maschine is fantastic for extended beat loops, I refuse to make songs like that.

Now, I also realize there are several workarounds, hacks and tricks to get Maschine to do things that DAWs do but those are workflow killers for me. I can do things in Ableton in a fraction of the time that I can do it in Maschine. Want to automate something across several scenes ? Bam, done. Want MIDI plugins to work without 3rd party plugins ? bam, done. Want to finish a song without a major headache and dozens of arbitrary named patterns? Bam, done. Want a session [ideas] view that actually has flexibility and features ? Bam, done.
And a lot people say they just use Maschine as a sketch pad and then port your stems or whatever to your DAW / Ableton. I've tried that and no thanks. Thats just another road block in the creative process for me and I don't want my workflow to be limited by Maschine's shortcomings. So maschine is a drum maschine and that's exactly all it is for me now.
/endmonthlymaschinerant

 

I would have to like to many post here so I will just say ditto.

 

To piggy back off D-Ones points, there is nothing wrong with patterns and scenes. More that Maschines implementation of them are too limiting. I like the patterns and scenes workflow but we should be able to adjust pattern and scene start. Should be able to adjust scene position. Also a way to record linear clips that are not restricted to the scene boundaries. Many of the old groove boxes could record mutes and solos. How about tempo per section and a way to automate song tempo? Aftertouch anyone? There is lots of basic things missing you will find on both pattern based hardware sequencers and DAWs alike.