Why should I stick with NI after this?

Discussion in 'B4 & B4 II' started by AlexV, Oct 26, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AlexV

    AlexV NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    139
    After reading about the major discontinuation scheme just recently put into action by NI today, I find myself pretty p***ed off.

    I´ve allready ditched Steinberg for their softsynths and given them the boot/finger because of a similar policy. Infact, that was the main reason why I chose to "go native". Now, both B4 and Elektric Piano have become mainstays in my home studio production kit.

    So, Native People; Give me a good reason for staying with you in the future!

    And also give me a reason for actually paying for the upgrade from Komplete 5 to Komplete 6, as I find this product quite inferior in total value compared to the predessesor.

    NI, you've ruined my day... ;-)
     
  2. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    21,329
    Elektrik Piano is now part of the Kontakt 4 library, and the library loads fine and plays in Kontakt 3.5/KP. So, how are you missing it?

    As for B4, that and Pro-53 are direct descendents of the oldest code in the NI library; their predecessors (B4 and Pro-5) were among the first VST plugins. They'd need a total rewrite to become x64/new OS compatible.

    ew
     
  3. Mr-Emulator

    Mr-Emulator NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    129
    While i share your concerns about discontinued products i ask you if you can name me one single company you can be 100 % shure of that they will support their current VST instrumetns till cows come home? If you want a higher guarantee you need to switch to hardware synths and hope they never die after they are out of production.

    Because it actually is inferior in quantity of VST instruments the price of the full version was reduced to less than half of it's predecessors. Yet there are 3 new versions which means the udate price stays the same as before since you never got more than 3 new instruments in any previous Komplete update if i am not wrong.
     
  4. JasonSpatola

    JasonSpatola Forum Member

    Messages:
    118
    I was a bit sad at first, but seeing that EP and AP work better than ever in Kontakt 4 (and that EP is already included) truly softened the blow.

    I'm not bothered by the B4 discontinuation either - '57 Drawbar Organ's sample based sounds are totally superior in my opinion. (I realize some people may miss the interface and some of the synth-based engine's expressiveness, however - plus the fact that '57 costs an additional $60.)

    As far as Pro-53 - this may be a dealbreaker and a heartbreaker for many, but I actually prefer Stephan V.'s Reaktor ensemble to the aging NI plug:

    http://co.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=userlibrary&type=0&ulbr=1&plview=detail&patchid=3870

    Not saying that everything is rosy, but luckily there are some terrific (and IMO, superior) options to replace what's been lost - hardcore B4 and Pro-53 users are certainly entitled to disagree. (As are people who can't shell out the extra cash for the '57 Drawbar soundpack.)

    In any case, check out these alternatives if you have the time and see what you think. (And I realize you feel you shouldn't HAVE to - but eventually you'll have to find a replacement somehow - NI-developed or not - so it's worth a shot.)

    However, I must say that I'm disappointed that NI's decision to discontinue these plugs hasn't seemed to pay off for the customers yet... Kore 2/Komplete 6 integration doesn't yet work as advertised - you'd think that freeing up these resources would have sped this process along.

    Anyway, I wish you luck - though some of their customer service practices seem (and quite possibly are) unfair, and they are slow as hell at resolving fairly major issues, most of NI's products are truly spectacular - and truly irreplaceable. (If they discontinued Battery or Massive, I'd be PISSED.)

    ...Certainly hoping the future is brighter though - I feel like NI is SOOOO close to being perfect - hopefully this new, slimmed-down product offering will start paying dividends to the users of the existing instruments.
     
  5. Ivansc

    Ivansc New Member

    Messages:
    21
    Frankly, the B4 is/was the best hammond-alike for me and I shall continue to use it till it no longer works in my studio rig, then replace it with something else that DOES work.
    But I almost certainly will not be looking at anything from NI to fill that gap.
    fair enough, discontinue something but dont go on selling it at full whack long after you have decided to discontinue the product and support, especially immediately before the arrival of a significant upgrade to the OS used by the majprity of your customers
     
  6. WillBarnett

    WillBarnett Forum Member

    Messages:
    340
    Dont stay with NI then. Stop ranting and use something else.
     
  7. AlexV

    AlexV NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    139
    OK, maybe I overreacted a little bit when suddenly getting all that (for me) bad news, at once... Sorry for that. Still, knowing what I now know, I might not have gone with NI in the first place. I will stay with them now, as rebuilding the selection of instruments using other manufacturers would be economically out of one's mind.

    And the 60 bucks for another drawbar organ will be money dipped in anger...

    I'll try to make the best of the situation and hope for a stable future, both when it comes to a decent line of products and the running of them. :)
     
  8. BarnesVer6

    BarnesVer6 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    93
    I tend to disagree.

    I just purchased 57 Organ, to complement B4 rather than to replace it. I had high hopes but all in all I am a little disapointed with the sounds. It far from bad but in my opinion not as as good as B4II.

    Maybe I am missing somthing but I do not seem to be able to get a good crunchy sound. Maybe the drive is applied to each note rather than to the over all sound so you do not get the increasing distortion as you add more notes and unless I am missing somthing else the rotary speaker options are very basic.

    Now If I patch in B4 II as an effect and use it's amp and speaker simulations it sounds excellent!

    The Kore player interface is messy, some patches have two pages of controls and others 3. On the '57 Organ patch, which is the only one that gives access to all the drawbars you have to go to another page to find the 1ft drawbar.

    There are a lot of parameters to tweak but It's not obvious how you can save a patch. I better go and read the manual.
     
  9. schrage musik

    schrage musik NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,258
    Is that actually true?
     
  10. JasonSpatola

    JasonSpatola Forum Member

    Messages:
    118
    Yeah, it's a person to person kinda thing. I rarely use B-3/C-3 organ sounds, so it suits me fine. YMMV!
     
  11. york909

    york909 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    31
    On Komplete 6 (having upgraded from 5) here.

    Is there any chance of getting .ksds that will load the elektrik piano sounds in Kore 2's Kontakt 4 engine? I appreciate that these is always the workaround of loading the .nki's in Kontakt but I would like to have the sounds searchable again! And saving each one as a .ksd will take a LONG time!
     
  12. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    21,329
    I'd like to know if he's talking about Snow Leopard or W7 myself...

    ew
     
  13. Saturnin79

    Saturnin79 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    22
    I totally agree,

    I will miss Pro53, as well as B4II. I don't know where you guys at NI are going : selling soundbanks is nice, but we expect more from you, including rewriting the entire code from B4II or Pro53. Come up with something REALLY new. Where are the Massive, Reaktor times gone ? OK there is Maschine, it looks nice (though, once more, a piece of hardware and sample-based software...). Did you think about what Bandstand II might have been ? Including a real sophisticated midi sequencer, ability to work on midi files with a nice sound (2Go of sounds is nice, enough to work, loads quickly, and so on...), and a "save midi as..." option of course ! That might have rocked. No need to open a DAW, load Kontakt, etc.

    Instead of what, you're selling Koresounds, Kontakt sounds... sad story.
     
  14. TvTan

    TvTan Forum Member

    Messages:
    37
    Simple customers vieew

    If B4, Pro53 and the pianos were still supported, I would upgrade to Komplete 6, as they are not, I will look elsewhere for my soft synths. NI, your research was flawed, people did still want the products, as someone once said, customers are your lifeblood, look after them.
     
  15. ew

    ew Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    21,329
    Your choice.

    ew
     
  16. TvTan

    TvTan Forum Member

    Messages:
    37
    Certainly is, not good for NI in the long run of it turns into a trend, but there you go ;)
     
  17. AlexV

    AlexV NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    139
    If I get the chance, I'll ask the Native guys about "safe" products for the coming years when I'm at the Musikmesse in Frankfurt. I was a bit disappointed not to find them there last year, being in their "native" country...
     
  18. danika

    danika NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    79
    NI could have avoided a lot of this animosity if they had made the 57 Drawbar Organ Kore pack available to BII customers for free. To say "You paid for BII, but now you have to pay again to get a Hammond organ" is a real slap in the face.
     
  19. pbryant

    pbryant New Member

    Messages:
    9
    I wouldn't be so pi**ed-off if there had been a free upgrade from B4-II. It was only a matter of a few days between purchasing my B4-II, and the discontinuation notice :-(

    But even that approach wouldn't help us load up old projects (maybe in the years to come), only to find that carefully-crafted B4-specific performance data is no longer compatible with other, newer organ VSTs. Continuity will be crucuially important.

    I'm personally not convinced by the argument that 're-working for 64-bit is not viable'. If some people's 32-bit VST-compatible code works unchanged (and un-re-compiled) in the 64-bit world, then surely the rest should theoretically be capable, if the underlying VST standard hasn't changed?

    Clearly, there's obviously a fundamental flaw with the 'software as a one-off purchase' model that we all have to work within.

    The trouble is, neither Steinberg nor NI (and to be fair, many others) seem to care that some long-time VST supporters no longer have a solution to moving to newer/64-bit platforms without shifting to new products completely. It's not about 'if' people will move audio and video software platforms to 64-bit. It's no longer about 'when' either - now it's about 'how'.

    If the continuity was there, I would happily stump-up a reasonable sum for an(other) upgrade. I expect I'm not the only one to express this preference. Surely a profitable paid-for upgrade model could be an ongoing source of revenue for VST creators - every time there's an incompatible O/S change in the future? I'm sure as hell that Win7 and OSX aren't the end of the line. Backwards data compatibility and file formats isn't just a problem for music recording software. Even Microsoft seem willing and able to address these types of issues.

    Otherwise, maybe we should see if there's any realisable benefit from asking the likes of NI and Steinberg to put source code from discontinued products into the public domain?

    My 40-year old Precision bass remains compatible with every amplifier, effect and recording device on the market.....but it now seems to be unreasonable to expect that a piece of hi-tech software should last more than a month before being rendered effectively obsolete. This can't be a sustainable business model.

    Right now the obvious choice seems to be between NI's 57 Drawbar Organ and VB3 - both at around 49 euros. I consider that 49 euros would be a for price to pay for a data-compatible upgrade. But to have to re-work my arrangements to suit, is a price (in terms of time) I can't justify. If NI (and presumably GSi) can create a (presumably profitable) new product for 49 euros, why can't an old one be fixed, to keep the users happy?

    Come on NI (and the rest) - start throwing us some lifelines, or your products will in-time develop a reputation akin to the BetaMax video cassette.

    This isn't about the wasted 49 euros for a single disocntinued product - it's about the whole pile of paid-for VSTs I've purchased over the years which have become increasingly at risk as time has moved-on. Funnily enough, most of Steinbergs bundled (and free) VSTs seem to continue to run fine in an all 64-bit Cubase 5/Win7 world. It obviously wasn't much of a probelm for them.....

    God, I'm rambling now.....perhaps I should have better spent my time re-working those old arrangements :)
     
  20. jodymcdougle

    jodymcdougle Forum Member

    Messages:
    33
    I have akoustik piano, b4ii, and intakt on my desktop. I haven't moved in the kore direction yet. It looks and sounds cool enough, I'm just already happy enough with my hardware. and I can barely afford guitar strings, let alone the sound banks that native instruments are releasing on a constant basis! I just miss the whole stand alone side of things too, I guess. The new products and libraries sound incredible though! I've been a native instruments fan for years, and I'm not going anywhere! But I do miss a couple of the old ones that didn't rely on hardware too! I'm checking out absynth 5 and it's incredible. Damn I'll miss akoustik piano though. Maybe it'll persuade me enough to be more involves with Kontakt though. Good post, man! And hang in there! Things have a way of working themselves out sometimes. ;0)
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.