why there so few arrangement videos for maschine?

I have noticed on youtube and the likes that there are loads of tutorials for Maschine that show the initial process of building up the main groove and melody of track, but then there are not so many videos of the actual arranging of the track.

And I'm wondering why this may be, I personally find the process quite difficult - which is why I was looking for videos.

So is it that people also find it difficult and so avoid making a video of it or is that its so easy there is not much call for videos.

Or is it that many don't use maschine for the arrangement?

So yeah I thought id start this thread to see what people opinions are on the matter.

But also want to see if If its just me that finds it a struggle, I find it really easy to get that groove built up, but then as soon as I start to try to make that groove into an arrangement of some sort that when I stuck, well maybe not stuck, I can do it but things just don't flow as smoothly as the initial creative step.

So any tips on this will be a big help if you have them.

cheers.

 

It's not easy. You have to reprogram your mind because of the way that Maschine works. I believe there will be many approaches and i'll endeavor to do a video covering 'my' approach in standalone at some point in the future.

 

This.....

I think it's very intuitive, not very different from doing it on a drum machine, or groovebox. All of the Roland Grooveboxes worked this way (only the MV-8800 had a song mode), my Korg EM-1 worked this way, the MPC worked this way. Only Maschine is even better, because you can "see" or visualize the patterns. All those other machines, you had to write down a list of patterns you wanted to use, then list the order you wanted them to play, then turn a dial to program the numbers of the patterns in the order you want.

Maschine, click on the first scene, then go through each group you want to play & select the pattern you want to play (from the controller push the pattern button & push the pad corresponding to the pattern you want played). Then move to the next scene & repeat. When you have all your scenes built, grab the timeline at the top of the arrange area click & drag over the area of all your patterns. Or, push the scene button then press the first pad & the 8th pad if you want the first 8 scenes to play in your song.

 

Thanks for the reply's,

Danny I will be very interested to see a vid of your approach should you do one.

 

It might well be that I have not had any past experiences with drum machines or groove boxes so the whole concept is alien to me. So its probably a practice thing.

I did find a couple of those vids, and they helped a little, but they used very simple tunes as an example.....

but yeah maybe its just me

 

You can hit up www.maschinetutorials.com they have tons of video, I'm sure they have your issues covered somewhere.

 

Personally I like to make a main sequence and then duplicate the patterns and start breaking them apart, deleting select notes on them all and adding notes to give variety, there really are several ways to go about it just spend more time trying and it will come to you.

 

cool, I do something similar but I get into mess quite fast, making loads of slight variations, I guess I just need more practice.

I did look at the maschine tutorials site and most of their vids were the early creation part and not the sequencing out. there were some good ideas in the ones they did of arranging though. like the track mutes, but again that requires you stop and to set things up.

things. But yeah id just like to see a few approaches to get some ideas on a smooth workflow.

 

You can make a single pattern 256 bars long. At 155 bpm, that's a 6 minute song.

 

It's obvious imho, maschines forte is sound design and its weakest point is song arrangement. The bright side of the the situation is that maschine really doesn't have a songmode to speak of and is wide open now that the re-write has taken place for them to address the issue.

 

Just re-reading the thread and just want to add this. No one should feel uncomftable about their outlook on the song arranging in maschine, without a doubt this aspect of maschine is a step backwards. The problem is not that you just don't get it, grasp maschines ideology, or don't work hard enough, the issue is maschine itself. For 4 years maschine has relied on being augmented with ableton live mostly or other daws to finish a song and as much as I don't mind at all using a daw to polish up a track, song arrangement is squarely within the realm of maschines responsibility! When ni starts bringing the arranging steps forward in the same vein hey have done for the sound design aspect heaven will rejoice!

 

I think it's about getting your head round the sequencing.... Im from the old school Groovebox era and actually find the process of arranging a track quite similar to the old Roland Mc series...... As mentioned by Fullex creating all the bare bones and then deconstructing it is a good way to go about it...... I find that overkill can be a workflow nuisance, less is more sometimes is a good way to look at arranging........ It can be a very tedious process, but it's also very rewarding...... Another good tip is take time out when arranging, don't sit for hours and hours, spend a little bit of time each day working on a specific part, don't try and rush things....... I really struggled with arranging at first and it is very easy to get lost and disillusioned but stick in there...... It's like anything else the more familiar you get the easier it will come.......

 

+1 its different from traditional daws. what I usually do is just alter patterns and lay them out in the same way I used to on hardware samplers.

 

I understand what you're saying, unfortunately for me it isn't a case of unfamiliarity. I'm well versed in the old roland and yamaha sequencing ethos and I understand maschine fully after all of these years, the problem is that maschine is just getting to know itself so right now there isn't allot of balance or continuity between all of its parts for instance those old xox boxes and the like didn't need to do the things that maschine needs to do, they didn't need to arrange samples in a fluid and organic fashion. The best way to describe it is probably that maschine is a futuristic groove production studio in the body of a drumsampler/groovebox with the limited capabilities of the sequencing architecture that existed in non sampling groove boxes that came before drumsamplers but with less arranging ability than drum machines that came before all of them like the dr rhythms and such. In other words maschine offers a million patterns, a billion, scenes, and a gazillion headaches if you want to use them, there's just no way that with all that maschine has to offer that we all should be trying our best to use one long sequence and one long scene to write a song, the sequencing and arranging elements just need improving in my opinion.

 

I do absolutely no "sound design" at all. If a preset doesn't do it for me, I move on to the next one.

What I like about Maschine, is its arranging capabilities. 4 bar intro, 12 bar verse, 8 bar chorus, 12 bar verse, 2 bar bridge, 8 bar chorus, 12 bar guitar solo, 12 bar chorus/outro.... I can copy & paste without copying & pasting.... no mouse, no qwerty...... easy, easy, easy.

For me it's just like my old drum machine/grooveboxes... only much better sounds I can "see" the structure of my songs & I've got more "bread & butter" sounds, piano, clavs, rhodes, B3, horns, strings & not just synth/dance sounds.

 

its a groovebox and so you work with it like it is.. too many people work out a good 2 or 4 bar pattern and then think "now what?" rather than making a pattern as part of a song... If you are used to a more linear flow, then simply work like that.. think of a song structure, map it into scenes, then work on it in pieces.

 

I completely agree with your description of maschine, the problem is that maschine doesn't agree with you and I on that description or it wouldn't offer all of those things that it does that your old machines did not as well as all of those things that you don't use like the sampling features.
But for me personally the issue is that stuff in the inbetween spaces of the 4 bar intro, 12 bar verse, 8 bar chorus, 12 bar verse, 2 bar bridge, 8 bar chorus, 12 bar guitar solo, 12 bar chorus/outro. The tempo changes, the silence, the transitions, the build ups, the releases and the tensions and bringing it all together. Maschines sequencer just isn't up to the same level as those other parts of maschine that you don't use, but for it to all work seamlessly like I believe ni plans they're going to have to get it up to par.

 

I'm not talking about linear vs patterns, I love patterns and prefer them for sample based composition, I just think that ni gave gave maschine access to allot of patterns and scenes but because of the implentation most people prefer to use much less than what is actually on hand, most prefer to use maschine like flux described. There's nothing wrong with making the best of the situation but its not ideal, just as its not ideal for the other half of maschine users to religiously have to use it with a daw to make some simple changes

 

so what would have been the traditional way to use a groove box?

 

I definitely use the sampler, just not for sound design.

I agree with you here. Automation should be recorded in song mode, tempo should be variable, you should be able to record mutes & solos as part of the song. I've got no problem if NI were to add that functionality to Maschine (I honestly don't know if they do or don't) but for me (& this is just me) the closer Maschine gets to a "real" DAW, the more I'd just as soon use a real DAW.