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Windows 7 32bit or 64bit?

Discussion in 'Computer Technology and Setup' started by 041kenyo041, Apr 8, 2010.

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  1. 041kenyo041

    041kenyo041 New Member

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    4
    Hello, I have just purchased Komplete 6 and Pro Tools 8. I tried Komplete on my older laptop, and I'm having trouble, so I'm thinking a new desktop is in order. My question is, my dad has a slightly older desktop with Windows 7 32bit that he is willing to let me use. So should I use that computer, or should I get a new desktop with Windows 7 64bit and proceed with the extra steps in order for Reaktor 5 to work properly? Thanks in advance!

    Kyle
     
  2. SloobyJane

    SloobyJane NI Product Owner

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    All I can say is I've been using Windows 7 64bit since last July since I built my i7 machine, I had to wait on a few 64bit drivers here and there but now everything has been working very stable for my DAW setup.

    Only you can decide but I know I was on the fence of building an XP machine or even buying a mac$$$, but I am happy with going to Windows 7.
     
  3. Cockney

    Cockney Forum Member

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    Dear community

    There are two points I like to discuss with you :

    A) My studio pc (winXP) is now about 10 years old. The 4 GB RAM now have sometimes its problems with 8 or more vst-instruments. So I am now thinking about buying a new computer. It should be as fast and as silent as possible. Something like this:
    - Core i7 ca. 3GB Hz (version ?)
    - 12 GB DDR3 or more (24 is explodingly expensiv – now about 3x more than 12)
    - 160 GB SSD Flash (Just for Cubase, Native Instruments and Drivers – Projects are on a external SATA HDD)
    - 19’’ rack
    - inBoard soundcard (with external firewire and/or usb audio interfaces)
    About 2000 € or USD/CHF 3000+ I’d guess. How do you think about point A?

    B) Windows 7 pro 64x
    It’s not really comfortable to me buying a pc like this, if the software I will use does not fit with it. Upgrading to Cubase 4 or 5 64x (now Cubase Studio 4) is just the first step. I use Kore 2 and Komplete 5.
    • What is its reaction In combination with Cubase 64x?
    • Can you install it at all on 64x OS, do they work (I had it on Vista - it worked a bit :lol:)?
    • How can it use the CPU?
    • Is it possible that Cubase can force it to take more RAM than 4 (or maybe less ?) ? If it cannot : Does it work faster anyway with my pc configuration ?
    • I read Kontakt 4 does fit now with 64x, will there be any updates for the old (Komplete 5) instruments or do I have to upgrade sooner or later ?
    Is it maybe better to wait 6-12 months ? Thanks for your answers.

    best regards
     
  4. PlanetEarth

    PlanetEarth NI Product Owner

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    No major improvements unless you upgrade the software

    Cockney,
    First of all, before you go to Windows 7 64-bit, make sure whichever external sound device you want has 64-bit drivers. Without those, none of the rest of this matters. ;)

    I don't use Cubase. It should run in a 64-bit environment, but I don't know if your version will run in Windows 7. Windows 7 has more restrictions than Windows XP did. Check their Web site for Windows 7 support.

    Even in a 64-bit environment, Cubase won't be any faster, and it won't access more than about 3.5 GB of RAM. It's still a 32-bit application, after all. Unless you're going to be loading a lot of samples and softsynths into memory, you really don't need 12GB.

    An SSD hard drive won't get you any real-world benefits, either. For loading applications and other everyday use, they're really not much faster than mechanical drives with SATA3 controllers (if you can get those). They do cost a lot more money, though. There are some situations where SSDs are faster, and if you were streaming your samples from an SSD drive, you might notice an improvement. But you'd have to sell your house to buy a 2 GB SSD drive--if you could even find one. 1 GB is pretty much the limit today. (That will soon change, of course.)

    As I understand it, Komplete 5's products were 32-bit, so you'd have to upgrade to get the most out of them. Installing 32-bit apps in a 64-bit environment is a bit of a pain, anyway, though they should work...in theory. NI has some information on this here: http://www.native-instruments.com/knowledge/questions/731/Installing+NATIVE+INSTRUMENTS+Applications+on+a+64-bit+Windows+System NI also has some information on using their products with Vista (32-bit), but it's out of date, and I couldn't find anything similar about Windows 7.

    New processors from AMD and Intel will be coming out by the summer. While you won't really need all the speed these processors deliver, their mere existence will force down the prices of today's top-tier processors. Waiting can be good, unless you're already having problems with your existing system.

    Hope this helps.
     
  5. Cockney

    Cockney Forum Member

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    Hi Steve

    Thanks for your answer.

    Yes, that's the "main problem" but if I buy a good computer with Win7, I will purchase devices that fit with Win7 64x (some of mine do already - but not the phonic audio interface firewire).

    Are you sure? So this 64x Cubase isn't a "real" 64 bit application? Where do you have this informations from (source)? What about NI products?

    That's what I do.

    I think you meant TB not GB. I don't need more than 120 GB for Cubase and Instruments so it's an acceptable prize but I think the SATA3 would be a good alternative, but I don't know where to purchase it.

    There will not be any "everyday use" on this pc. The pc I configured is - when I'm going to decide to purchase it - only for recording and NOTHING else - no Office, no Internet.

    Thank you.

    On my notebook I'm working with Windows 7 32 bit and it works well.

    Good!

    Well, after your answer I think it's not profitable to switch on 64 bit Windows if Cubase and the NI can't even use the RAM. :S
     
  6. procrastinator

    procrastinator NI Product Owner

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    1,392
    when installing Cubase 5 you can decide if you want 32 or 64 bit or both. the problem with the 64 bit version is that when running 32 bit vsts cubase uses a "bridge" which is known for its poor performance and stability.

    I personally have both versions installed in Win 7 64 bit but as i want to run kore2 as vst in cubase i only use the 32bit version of cubase. So at the moment for me personally there is no use of the 64bit capability of windows but for the highly unlikely event of a kore 2 64bit update i am ready ;-)
     
  7. Cockney

    Cockney Forum Member

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    32
    That's what I guess. :S
     
  8. PlanetEarth

    PlanetEarth NI Product Owner

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    107
    Sorry, yes...I meant TB, not GB.

    And yes, a 64-bit version of Cubase would access more than 3.5GB of RAM. I had focused on the Cubase 4 you already have. I missed the part where you said you would upgrade Cubase. (No more replying to these messages at 2 AM for me!)

    You can get SATA3 hard drives and motherboards from Newegg.com now. The drives aren't much more expensive than SATA2--there's a Seagate 2TB for $249 (USD). Compare that to the 80 -128 GB SATA2 SSD drives you can get for that price.

    Another issue with SSD drives is that they can only be written to so many times in each area. The jury is still out on their longevity. And if you have 12GB of RAM, you could probably load all (or most of) your samples into RAM; you wouldn't need a "fast" SSD drive, anyway.

    NI hasn't listed whether all the products in Komplete 6 are 64-bit, though they say that they'll all work in a 64-bit system. Absynth is 64-bit, but I don't know about the rest. And as Procrastinator notes, you'll have problems with VSTs that aren't 64-bit.
     
  9. Funky D

    Funky D Forum Member

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    71
    Cubase 32-bit will run a bit better in Win7 64-bit because of the better multi-processing support in Win7. The extra memory will make a bit of a difference too... you probably won't need more than 6GB at this point, however, especially if you're running Cubase 32-bit. I would wait a few months on Cubase 64-bit; the 5.5 update will feature better quad processor support and a more stable VST bridge.

    Also, just a FYI, memory has shot up in price this past month. If you're buying a system soon, you'll probably save by getting 6GB of memory now and upgrading to 12 a few months down the road.

    Sorry Steve, but this advice is not correct... a high-quality SSD drive will offer the largest performance boost you can get on today's systems. They will load applications and samples INSTANTLY. I don't own one, but I've read enough on www.anandtech.com to be sold (if I had the $$$). There are also some users of this forum who have touted the speed of loading samples... Entire Maschine kits load almost instantly.

    You need to stay away from the lower quality drives, which will feature much slower write speeds. The Intel drives are unanimously praised. New drives and Windows 7 also feature TRIM support, which keeps the drives conditioned as they fill up (older SSD drives got slower as they were filled). SATA3 controllers offer no benefit to mechanical drives, as single drives don't even get near the bandwidth limit of SATA2. SSD's are a different beast, however. You'll want to load your OS on the SSD along with your audio programs and samples to get the biggest boost. Which unfortunately means you'll probably need a 160GB drive (or two 80's).

    I believe all of Kontakt 6 is 64-bit compatible (to run in Cubase 64) except for Reaktor... I can double-check this when I get home. Kontakt 3.5 is also 64-bit. Kore 2 is still 32-bit, unfortunately.
     
  10. PlanetEarth

    PlanetEarth NI Product Owner

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    107
    Cubase might run a bit better thanks to Win 7's better multi-processor support. As I mentioned, I don't use Cubase, so I suggested the OP check Steinberg's site. Most VSTs aren't multi-processor "aware" though, and don't run any better, really. Any benefits they gain are more from the OS handling them more efficiently. And I'm not convinced most people would even notice. Coming from a 10 year-old system though, everything is going to run much faster, multi-processor or no.

    SSD does take better advantage of SATA3, but from what I've seen in ars technica and PC World and other reports, the benefits of SSD are a mixed-bag, at best.

    According to an article from ars technica, (http://arstechnica.com/hardware/new...lp-60gbps-sata3-to-reach-speed-potential.ars), "Test results showed the current SATA2 drive at 2.5Gbps and the SATA3 drive at 5.5GBps. Keep in mind that these test results almost certainly do not reflect (or attempt to reflect) real-world usage conditions. [Italics mine.] The 7200.12 series carries up to 32MB of onboard cache—if the test data is streamed directly out of cache, than yes, the difference between the two standards will come into play. AMD and Seagate, of course, aren't highlighting that fact."

    And yes, you'll need a lot of space for all these samples. Considering you could create a RAID 0 configuration (optimized for speed) with two 2TB drives for about the same cost as two 128GB SSD drives, you have to ask yourself what your time is worth. If you're charging clients, they won't notice the difference. If you're just really impatient (which I admit I am), then you might need the SSD. But you could fit a LOT more onto the mechanical drives. ;)

    That's good to know, thanks. I wish NI would make this info a bit easier to find...if it's even published. A lot of people in these forums can't find definitive information on 64-bit stuff or Windows 7 support from NI.

    And when you're considering the latest and fastest processors, keep in mind that some people have seen issues with the way the i7 handles the processors' "Turbo" feature. Apparently, turning them on and off to increase the overall speed affects latency. SONAR users have seen this, but it's not specific to SONAR.
     
  11. Cockney

    Cockney Forum Member

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    Just read in a magazine there are going to come new standards of connectors this year removing pci connectors (maybe other too). So I think it's a good decission to wait for new hardware. ;)

    By the way, I haven't written anything about the graphic card (because I haven't found it "important" for recording). Just read in the same magazine that a good graphic card also improves the speed of the computer (so it's not only "good" for games). Some applications force the graphic card to calculate things (it does certain works of CPU hz & RAM? ;-) ) but I don't know if Cubase or NI use this option but anyway the computer always has to wait for the 'visualisation' and the faster THIS is, the better a computer can use the speed of f.E. SSD, RAM, etc.
    Maybe you already knew this - I did not.

    And, yes, did you know Windows 7 Home Premium is "only" supported for 16 GB RAM?
    http://www.winvistaside.de/artikel/windows-7-versionen-im-vergleich/

    best regards
     
  12. PlanetEarth

    PlanetEarth NI Product Owner

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    107
    More and more "CPU-intensive" applications are being tweaked to take advantage of the GPU (graphics processor unit), and take the load off the CPU. Adobe Creative Suite 4 and 5, Adobe Flash are already set for it.

    There's even a freeware IR-based reverb that takes advantage of nVidia's CUDA technology. LiquidSonics makes a GPU-aware reverb and EQ. Find out more here: http://www.liquidsonics.com/home.htm.
     
  13. DJ Spinn

    DJ Spinn New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Everyone talks about Windows 7 64-bit. Don't get me wrong, it's really good. Although, I have a Core2 Quad with Windows 7 32-bit with 4GB of RAM, and quite honestly, I LOVE IT! I'm running Komplete 6 and Kore 2, with Cubase 5, and everything runs flawlessly and the up-to-date NI plugins are even more stable than ever on Windows 7. If you wanna go the 32-bit route, go ahead. If you wanna take advantage of more than 4GB of RAM, then sure, go the 64-bit route.

    :)
     
  14. Kostekandreev

    Kostekandreev New Member

    Messages:
    19
    I tried work with Cubase 4.5.2 on win 7 x 64 bit...
    and ok some instruments are faster
    but whole projects - where I use NI Komp 5, Yellow tools, and ext plugings - Liquis mix, or Fabric from TC...
    I can say it was all too problematic
    I had not much time to realise what is the reason of crappy behaviour of that...
    just had no time before flight over the ocean and work with next project
    I only can say that VST bridge from steinberg is real Sh....
    so I just installed 32 bit Cubase and I can work now ( note book I 3 , 4Gb ddr3 etc...)
    in a 3 weeks I will finish this project and will flight back to Europe then it became a real "hard time" for suppurt teams of my equipment
    I really want to run as much as possible 64 bit on my desk top...
    but...it seems that it is still more safe to wait for better drivers etc.....
     
  15. DevonPete

    DevonPete Forum Member

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    256
    I've been using W7 64 bit OS since the RC Beta and immediately did a fresh install of the kosher version when it came out last October. I've had NO problems at all. I tried running Cubase in 64 bit mode but immediately ran into a minefield of technical problems, so I'm running Cubase 5.1.1 in 32 bit mode and it works (except for all the well known documented bugs) fine. ALL my plugins work just fine. When I need to run a 64 bit ASIO driver (Guitar Rig in Stand Alone mode for example) I use ASIO4all which again works just fine too (10ms!).

    As far as NI Komplete 6 is concerned it runs perfectly, except Reakor 5 which causes some crackles and pops in Cubase... but using the "Affinity" workaround (This is a bug in CUBASE that Steinberg say is going to be fixed in the upcoming update to 5.5... but we all know about Steinberg's promises over the years!)

    My advice (FWIW) is go for 64 bit OS (it is the future) and run 32 bit in that until fully functional 64 bit plugins work perfectly (another few years yet I think). You can't currently get better than this for now. (Although I just know there's plenty of OP prepared to argue the toss... I'm not!)
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2010
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