Windows 8

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR PRO / TRAKTOR SCRATCH PRO' started by DJ Slick, Oct 27, 2012.

  1. DJ Slick

    DJ Slick Forum Member

    So the new OS is upon us for us PC users, i'm very interested to see the kind of performance people are getting with windows 8 running Traktor, any information would be very useful.

    I've read that Windows 8 is running lighter than Win7, and "snappier" especially for the "modern apps" which is the new name for the metro-style apps, similar to an app for droid or ios (i think?)

    I'm a 20+ year PC user, but i won't risk my live shows on a windows-based laptop, i use a mac. It just doesn't mess up. What i'm HOPING is that now Win8 is somehow stable and reliable enough to replace my aging C2D macbook pro with a nice cheap i7 PC laptop.

    I think we all want to know:

    1) stability (extended sets, scratch control, midi controllers, keylock, FX, any audio glitches?)

    2) performance (can achieve tighter latencies? less CPU load?)

    someone give us some good news!

    *edit* i did search forums using in-forum search tools, didn't see a similar thread in this section of the forums, but just googled it and found some? delete this if need be :/
  2. groovegsus

    groovegsus New Member


    I'm using windows 8 64 enterprise
    cpu i7 2600k
    16 gb ram
    SSD Agility 3

    what i tried under windows 8 is :

    - Traktor : runs without problems , but when you close it , the process traktor.exe is not killed. nous need to do this yourself (ctrl+alt+del to acces to processmanager if tou want to open again Traktor.

    My controllers are all perfectly working :

    - Allen Heat XONEDX
    - Allen Heat 1D
    - Maschine mikro
    - Native instrument X1
    - Pioneer cdj-900 HID mode
    - Behringer DDM4000.

    Soundcards working good :
    - Native instruments auio 4
    - Native instruments audio 10

    My Midi adapters is working good:
    - Roland UM-ONE usb-midi

    Not problem using all this devices with up do tade drivers.

    1) stability (extended sets, scratch control, midi controllers, keylock, FX, any audio glitches?)

    very stable
    no glitches

    2) Performance (can achieve tighter latencies? less CPU load?)

    Same latency , i never have cpu load , it stay on the first bar of the meter.
  3. DJ Slick

    DJ Slick Forum Member

    hey thanks for a comprehensive reply groovegsus!

    Love the 2600k, amazing that it can get higher clocks than the 3770k. But this is a desktop computer, so i'm glad to see it could handle Traktor fine. I'm more wondering about how windows laptops in general (in particular how win8 laptops) handle Traktor lately (since 2.5+). My last PC laptop was an HP DV2600 amd turion 1.9ghz with Vista. And suffice to say the experience with traktor was TERRIBLE, just nothing but issues. don't know if it was the HP or Vista, or what, just never had those issues with the macbook, although it was a bit faster (2.0ghz C2d)


    I've never seen that UM-ONE cable before, seems very neat! How is it?

    Not to derail this thread too much but I recently bought an FCB1010 behringer midi guitar pedal array to use with traktor, I plug the midi right through my Kontrol S4. Unfortunately i'm finding that the midi craps out randomly, not traktor nor any other program (ableton) will receive midi signals until i restart my macbook. I never had a problem with a USB controller, so my question is:

    Does the UM-ONE perform like a USB cable, or a MIDI cable? if your computer goes to sleep and then you resume, with the UM-ONE plugged in and your hardware still turned on, does it still work? or do you ever have to restart your computer or notice any other sketchy behaviour? seems like it could be just what i need.
  4. chrisbounce

    chrisbounce NI Product Owner

    This is great news.

    Maybe I'll upgrade after this weekends gig :)
  5. DJ Slick

    DJ Slick Forum Member

    can someone do a DPL latency check on a Windows 8 laptop please? this is really all i'm looking for.

    google: "DPC latency" and it's a great small app which just shows basically how good your computers latency for real-time applications is.

    let us know!

    p.s. i just read that Win8 isn't behaving properly with DPC? can someone confirm this? that you get a solid 1000ms delay on everything for no reason? but this is apparently just a measuring error?
  6. DJSigma

    DJSigma Forum Member

    I don't have Windows 8 installed on my DJ PC yet, but what you said about DPC Latency Checker is true - it is not properly compatible with Windows 8 and will give incorrect results. The software author is working on a new version. I don't know if it's the same with LatencyMon.

    Is the issue with Traktor not exiting properly still present in 2.6?
  7. bljoe

    bljoe New Member

    I have been running Windows 8 on my laptop with Traktor 2.6 fine so far.

    I just installed a copy of Windows 8 Pro bought from the Microsoft store as a digital download yesterday. I told it to keep all my setting and files , basically to do an upgrade.

    My Laptop is an Asus G51 with a Core 2 Duo P8400 2.26Ghz , 4GB RAM , 2 x 320GB HDD , and a Intel WiFi Link 5100 AGN internal wireless card.

    So far everything has been running pretty good , I have the WiFi enabled , the newest S4 driver at the time of this post , and have just updated to Traktor 2.6 with no real issues at all , and I have had it running for about 5 hours now - there has been little to no interferance from the WiFi , like popping etc. , however I notice slight crackles randomly when nothings playing , but you can not hear them with a track running.

    Some of you are talking about Traktor running with less cpu consumption on Win8 , So I have logged , and benchmarked as much as I could for everyone.

    COMPARING TO Windows 7 x64

    Windows 8 is using about 15-20% less RAM upon startup , and CPU usage has dropped by approx 3 - 6 % when running a couple basic things like MP3 conversion and Traktor, not that much , but every little bit counts.

    As far as Traktor itself , it appears to be processing virbatim to Win7 , no real differance if you actually look in your Individual Process Usage within TaskManager - but because Win8 is using a few less resources it appears that Traktor is running better in Win8. I have not really noticed any major latency reduction when running LatencyMon - everything is about the same there , with the exception of my WiFi , it dropped about 15% of average , but still spikes up as high as it did on Win7.

    I have been conducting my tests today running Traktor with 2 decks playing constantly , WiFi enabled , and one of my F1 contollers hooked up playing with samples.

    Hope this helps !

  8. marcomaunero

    marcomaunero Forum Member

    I upgraded to Windows 8 and Traktor Pro 2.6 just today. My notebook is an HP g6-1282sl, AMD APU A4 3300 1.9 GHz, 6 GB RAM. Let's see
  9. wrigh_a

    wrigh_a NI Product Owner

    Just a quick question. why would you test windows 8 with wi-fi on?
  10. DJ Slick

    DJ Slick Forum Member

    hey thanks a bunch for all the useful info bljoe, i'm starting to see the big picture about wintows 8 not actually handling apps any differenct, only the OS itself is more lean and therefore frees up a bit of performance for everything else.

    i would like you to please clarify your quote though please, when you way "still spikes up as high as in win7" how high do you mean?

    i know that running with wi-fi enabled can increase your latency spikes, but by how much? how many miliseconds are you talking about at the peaks?

    also how is your CPU meter looking in traktor? what percentage full would you say it is? this would be more indicitive of your cpu, but would still help paint a greater picture.
  11. bljoe

    bljoe New Member

    You ask why I test with WiFi on , and what latency I get ...

    To the user who asked why did I test with my WiFi on.

    Why not test Windows 8 with WiFi on ? WiFi is something that plagues most user on laptops that run Traktor on Vista or Windows 7, it's a major contributor to the Popping / Crackle complaint you here from alot of people.

    I personally want my WiFi on when using Traktor , I want it on because there are some occasions where I want to download a new song on the fly , I get requests for European dance songs that are not main streamed here in the U.S , and I want to fulfill my requests when it comes from a regular listener of mine - to show my dedication and appreciation for their patronage.

    Ok , the latency question. On Windows 7 my Wifi driver was around 400-800 on average , usually on the lower end though - but on occasion " like once every about 10-15 mins " it would spike upto around 1800 !

    On Windows 8 so far it has been around 350-650 on average , and every now and again spikes to about 1400-1500.

    Im, not so sure the lower latency is because of Driver handling in Windows 8 , I think it may be more to do with Windows background processes scanning network statistics / connections etc.... I will keep looking into this more until I figure it all out , but I wish the people getting paid at N.I were looking into it a little more.

    P.S. - - - N.I , please give me Multi-Core CPU support for Maschine already , I have been waiting and complaining for 2 years now , I need it ! Search for my youtube video on multi core maschine issue , you'll see what Im talking about...
  12. Bante

    Bante Forum Member

    Anyone tried the midiclock syncing abilities in win8? Stable or drifting?

    I couldn't get it stable in win7 so I made the switch to mac, but now I am curious how it will hold up in win8.
  13. DJSigma

    DJSigma Forum Member

    I'm running Windows 8 Pro 64 bit on a fairly high end desktop: -

    Core i7 3770k
    16GB of RAM
    Gigabyte GTX 670

    The latest version of Traktor runs fine for me when in use (I'm using a Traktor Audio 6), but there are 2 issues: -

    1. The little speaker icon at the top of the Traktor screen stays orange. I had this happen in Windows 7 too with an older version, but it never affected how Traktor works and it doesn't affect it here either. It's just a cosmetic issue.

    2. When you exit Traktor, it goes through the motions of saving, then it appears to exit but it remains running. You have to use Task Manager to end the task. This happens every single time.

    I have reported 2 as a bug. Based on my experience though, there is no reason not to use Traktor on Windows 8, as long as you're aware of the shutdown issue. If you're using a laptop in a club, it won't really matter anyway as you will fire up Traktor, do your set, then shut the laptop down at the end of the night. It's more of an issue if you use it at home, because if you don't shut it down via Task Manager it will continue to run and consume CPU cycles/RAM.
  14. dunkbot

    dunkbot New Member

    Traktor staying running after close


    I've been running Traktor 2.6 on an i7 Asus UX21A and so far have had good results except for the high CPU load (30%) and closing issues (as mentioned by another user in a previous post) - When closing Traktor the Traktor.exe process stays running.

    I have investigated a bit further and found that there's one thread (part of the program) that is using about 25% CPU load (1 core full time). This thread is causing the program to stay running after close.

    I have actually killed the thread (using a program called process explorer) while using traktor and there's no negative effects on the software (tracks play fine, everything works) and then the program closes properly when exited.

    I expect the thread causing the issue is used during start-up and that some difference between win7 and win8 is causing the thread to not terminate properly. I'm not sure if it's related to a driver issue or something else because only some people have mentioned the problem of the program staying running after close.

    On windows 8, the Audio 4 DJ hardware works well and for a short test had a longest USB latency of about 80us indicated on it's control panel.

  15. UltimateOutsider

    UltimateOutsider NI Product Owner

    Two things. First, regarding audio interface latency, I did round-trip latency tests on four different interfaces (MOTU PCIe-424, MOTU UltraLite-mk3 FW, NI Komplete Audio 6, and Virus TI Desktop interface mode), and the results were virtually identical across operating systems. In terms of actual interface performance on Win 8, however, (how many plugins and notes of polyphony the interface could support before audio broke down), the MOTU interfaces stumbled pretty hard on Win 8 whereas the KA 6 and Virus ran pretty close to the same as on Win 7. I believe the performance differences are down to drivers, and MOTU has yet to adopt Win 8 as a supported environment, so beware. And yeah, that DPC Latency tool simply doesn’t work properly on Win 8 yet- an update is supposedly in the works.

    Next, regarding resource usage: I did a head-to-head comparison between 64-bit Windows 7 Professional SP-1 and 64-bit Windows 8 Pro (RTM) on a Dell Latitude E6430. I did a fresh install of each operating system and only installed the following on both PCs:

    - All Windows Update patches
    - Dell Touchpad drivers
    - Intel HD Graphics Driver
    - Microsoft Visual Studio 2010 Remote Debugger

    I did not make any other customizations to the systems, so it’s a comparison of the default out-of-the-box Windows setup on equivalent Windows SKUs, with the same number of 3rd-party processes/services running.

    Here’s the raw data:
    (any way to embed images on this forum?)

    - The smaller number of total processes on Windows 8 is a trick; they bundled more services into “host processes” which each manage multiple services. So Windows 8 lists nine fewer processes than Windows 7- but also shows nine more services!
    - Windows 8 uses only 4.4% less RAM than Windows 7. I believe that all the people reporting that Win 8 uses 14-15% less are comparing a Windows 7 setup with tons of 3rd-party cruft installed to a pristine Win 8 install that hasn’t gathered any barnacles yet. Win 8 simply isn’t that big an improvement in terms of memory savings.
    - I measured “power-on to desktop” because it was easy to start the stop watch at the same time I pressed the power button. This notebook takes around 13 seconds before it actually begins kicking off the OS install, so you can shave that much off of each score. Windows 8 boot time is 3 seconds faster than Win 7. Almost 8.5% faster than Win 7 if you shave off the 13 seconds for the hardware boot.
    - I also monitored CPU usage in Process Monitor while the system was idle on both OSes. Windows 7 varied from 0%-0.77% CPU usage during this period, while Windows 8 regularly went from 0.00%-1.54%. Still not bad, but twice as busy as Win 7 when it was active.

    Windows 8 offers very modest resource usage improvements over Windows 7. There are some performance tweaks here and there that aren’t reflected in my observations, and results will vary by application. You should also keep in mind that very few hardware vendors have released Win 8 drivers yet, and I and others have observed wildly varying results on numerous devices that work great on Win 7 and don’t fare so well on Win 8. If you decide to test out Win 8, put it on a separate partition, or at least make a full, working backup of Windows 7 before attempting to upgrade.

    Also, while there ARE some performance improvements in Win 8, none of them apply in any way to day-to-day DAW usage. DAW performance will be exactly the same as Win 7 at best, or if your drivers aren't Win 8-certified, it may suffer. Upgrade to Win 8 if you like the new UI, or the non-DAW related features it offers. But if the PC is primarily for making music... I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade at this point.
  16. wrigh_a

    wrigh_a NI Product Owner

    to bljoe > ok understand now why you would put wi-fi on. though i would have thought risky utilizing the network adapter and downloading a tune whilst running trakor but hey if it works then great. wish my lappy was as robust. Saying that my latency never goes over 450 (DPC latency monitor) and thats with the lowest but one setting. however (please see my other posts) i have disabled virtually every service apart from what traktor requires on my laptop windows.

    to UltimateOutsider > great post really informative. Can you confirm which thread is left open that wont shut down? I have also thought about putting on Window 8 onto my laptop thinking there would be an advantage but appears not a great deal and more risky. I put it on my desktop with traktor which seemed to run fine but find for gig purposes the laptop always behaves different. anyway, great info...
  17. UltimateOutsider

    UltimateOutsider NI Product Owner

    Sorry, I'm not sure I understand your question? Are you talking about the open threads counts from my test data?
  18. dunkbot

    dunkbot New Member

    Using process explorer (seperate program, not the windows task manager) it's possible to see all the threads (individual execution paths) within a process (in this case the whole Traktor application with many threads).

    Using that program (pm for a link) I could see one thread at the top of the list using 25% cpu load. On a 4 core cpu that's 1 core so it looks like something stuck in an endless loop. Killing that thread with Traktor running seemed to make no difference to the operation of Traktor but dropped the CPU load back down (maybe 5-7%) and meant that when I closed Traktor normally there was nothing left running.

    It's not really a good thing to do for live use of Traktor because there may be a purpose to the thread (it may not be a leftover that couldn't close) and may cause trouble in use but for me at the moment it means I can use the A4DJ with the new laptop so I'll use it that way until I get a better option..
  19. cataciupa

    cataciupa New Member

    I've been running Traktor 2.6 on an i7 Dell n7110 and so far have had good results except for the high CPU load and closing issues.

    About the latency: in my case there is a huge difference between Win7 and Win8. A huge inprovement in Windows 8. In win7 the latency was around 800-1000 and now is at most 70-90.

    I hope that NI releases a patch soon to solve this problem.
  20. DJSigma

    DJSigma Forum Member

    I've been discussing the closing issues with NI support, but as yet it's only drawn blanks. They asked me to import a key into my registry, then run Traktor a couple of times so that it creates a log, but that log didn't give them any useful info, then they asked me to rename my library file to essentially force Traktor to rebuild a new library, but that didn't work either.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

    @dunkbot - Have you reported your findings to NI? The info about the thread you can see with Process Explorer may help.