Wishlist for B4 III

Ok fellows, christmas is just over, but I'll make my suggestions anyway.
To guard against misunderstandings: I really like the B4 II, but let's make good things better!

1. Interpolated Drawbar volume
The volume controlled by the drawbars shouldn't go up and down in noticeable steps. Pretty annoying when changing the sound slowly while playing. And aside there are (as in proper controllers, too) positions between the 0 - 8 levels, where the Drawbar catches. The Roland VK-8 is an example for this interpolation.

2. Attack depending on velocity
Make a full registration on a real hammond and press down a key slowly. You hear that each voice of the registration begins at a different time in a certain order. You'll get a similar effect, if the next version of the B4 will react on the velocity to determine the attack speed (example therefore is the creamware B-4000).

3. Motor On/Off
A custom modification used for example by Keith Emmerson. He could turn off the motor for the tonewheels while the amplifiers kept their power-connection. You hear an infinite glissando down of all played notes until the tonewheels come to a halt.
(example therefore is again the VK-8, but it reacts not very authentic)

4. Spring Reverb clash
Why does Emmerson treats his organs so rude? Because he's a rockstar! But in addition when you lift a Hammond - model with integrated spring reverb (p.e. L or M series) an inch from the ground at let it fall down, you'll hear a sound like thunder, if the reverb is switched on (otherwise you mistreated you organ for nothing). Integrated in the new B4 you could connect a controller with a trigger-pad to... well... trigger that function.
(VK-8 includes this feature, too)

5. Adjustable noise
When I kick down the Swell of my hammond to full, there is a soft humming noise of all 91 tonewheels. Ok, it's a technical wrongness, but as long as it's real hammond-noise it's goot noise . A function that allows to add and adjust the amountof that noise would be nice.

6. Better Tube Simulation
It's fine, that you hear more organ sound in recent pop-productions, but I need not to hear that it is the B4 II with this and that preset. Ok, it's the producers problem if they are stuck on a certain preset, but in my opinion it's the algorithm of the tube which is a little too repeating and harsh.
Ok, I now that a more realistic simulation of a tube is a matter of cpu-speed (all the little electrons which are dancing around in a cloud can't be truely simulated), but just compare the two guitar-amp softwares "NI guitar-rig 3" and "Amplitube 2" by IK Multimedia and you know what I mean.

 

Ah, I nearly forgot:

7. multiprocessor support
Maybe like Modartt did it with their "pianoteq 2", a multicore-rendering which you can turn on as you like.
With a 2.1 Ghz Dualcore apple notebook I already get minimal latency at full polyphony.

 

along with point #2 a more realistic key click would be nice (compare to hammond xk3). a dedicated adjustment for the key-off-click volume would be great.

8. sometimes i'd like to have percussion on the lower manual.
an option for this in preset scope woulf be nice too.

 

I must correct myself: Listen to the "ReValver" from Peavey instead of Amplitube, to compare with NI Guitar Rig. But even this isn't a true substitute for the real tube crunch. Maybe I'll make this the topic of my physics exam, to scientifically research the complete behaviour of tube amplifiers...

 

Buy the Nord Electro 2 or even 3

 

I once tried the C1 Combo Organ by NordElectro when it first came out. It wasn't bad in the whole (much better than XK3 by Hammond/suzuki) but the tube simulation was way behind B4 II.
A plus was the interpolated drawbar-volume, a minus that there were no drawbars.
They have this little nice test, weather one can spot the difference between their simulated leslie and the original and this is just ridculous. My guesses were always right and this through our bad PC-speakers.

Ok, the C1 is cheap for a combo organ, but it'll be more expensive, when you want to replace it. Therefore and because of the flexibility I'll stay with the plugins.

 

Hoi Jan Peters,

Ok ....

ga dan eens naar:

www.GenuineSoundware.com

en probeer die VST hammond eens ......

da's ook een goeie

Nord is een merk van Clavia; de C1 is een type van Nord en de Electro 2 en 3 --> idemditto (maar dit terzijde)

Ik denk dat die Italiaan Guido van Genuine Soundware wel leuk bezig is.

probeer die demo VST maar eens, ik was nogal verrast.

Ik ben trouwens minder enthausiast over de leslie van de B4 als de overdrive. Maar goed. 't is maar net wat je Hammond smaak is. De Hammond is eigenlijk natuurlijk de eerste synthesizer ooit. Een kerk(pijp)orgel cloon uit de jaren 20/30 ofwel 'the poor men's pipe-organ' (toen nog zonder leslie)

Groeten

-Rem

 

Ah, ein Orgel-Freund aus Belgien
Mehr internationalität in den Foren, das finde ich gut!

Thank you very much for this interesting hint.
What I've heard and read on www.GenuineSoundwave.com made me very curious.
Maybe the crown for the best VST-organ shall be passed to the VB3!

They seem to fulfill at least point No. 2 and 5 of my wishlist, maybe more.
From the few sound samples I can only assume, but I think not only the tube simulation, but the whole virtual circuit is more accurate (scanner Vibrato, Capacitors curves...).

I'll try the demo and will let you know, what I think.


Schöne Grüße aus Köln, Jan

 

Re: VB3

Hi Jan,

I guessed you were dutch by reading your name (not belgian), but I will continue in English (sorry but my German is not that good).

Maybe it is better for NI not to discuss a competitor in depth on their forum. So when you have things to discuss with me you better mail to info@rempro.nl

I defenitly like to share the opinion about this VST with you.


-Rem

 

9. toggles to select or de-select the various foldback options, high and low.

10. An option to choose a "theoretically perfect" organ without the limitations of foldback: that is to say, with options for inclusion of harmonics and sub-harmonics not available within the mechanical limitations of the real-world Hammonds. Also, provisions for playing notes (including the aforementioned harmonic series) above and below the mere 61-note compass that is available on physical Hammond organs -- in short, full 9-to-11 (or more, and selectable within or beyond the limitations of all available Hammond organ models) harmonic functionality, from MIDI notes 1-128.

 

The most important thing they could put in there for me would an "insert" so I could put a decent sounding tube overdrive between the tone wheel organ and the leslie. I can't stand the overdrive in B4 II. If they could make it so we could plugin a tube sim of our choice - that would be great. Even just setting it back to the old overdrive from the original B4 would be a big improvement over the one in the II version.

Actually ... I just spent some time with the VB3 demo. NI, you really ought to listen to the overdrive on VB3. That's the target you should be aiming for. I think I'm gonna make the switch - that overdrive is very nice.

 

11. User-assignable controls for the reverse preset keys. Would be nice to have a two-octave or so mini-keyboard on which to change presets for both manuals on the fly, especially if it also had a rotary pot or switch that could change the banks.

 

12. I know you can't do this on a real Hammond (without a second TG, at least 2 Leslies, and some heavy mods elsewhere inside), but it would be nice to be able to choose separate Leslie speeds for the great and swell (upper and lower) manuals.

In regards to Jan's #1, the Hammonds had two different kinds of drawbars: "ratchet" and "smooth". ALL B-3's had smooth drawbars (interpolated). The ratchet-typenot only provide discrete steps that audibly change as they are being pulled put, but also there is a space between each setting where the contacts disengage and there is NO sound, so that if you are pulling DB's on the fly, you can wind up losing the harmonic you are adjusting completely. Needless to say, smooth drawbars are highly sought on Ebay among the B-2/C-2/A crowd....

13. Put the "Velocity" switch back on the "Organ" View.

14. Provision for hardware Effects Send/Return. the signal can be tapped and returned on a real Hammond with an easy mod.

15. A *real* full-screen mode, that fills up the monitor screen.

16. An option to display four sets of drawbars for the manuals and one for the pedals, just like on a real Hammond. This would be nice especially in the *real* full-screen mode mentioned in #15.

17. Correct the errant explanation of the real-world Hammond "Cancel" key (reverse color-"C" key) in the operation manual (p. 41 for the B4-ii, p.41 for the B4-i).

The "Cancel" key does *not* function to "allow direct manipulation of the drawbars to determine the sound of the organ". That is the function of the "B" and B-flat" adjust (reverse-color) keys. The "B" key on the upper manual is the only setting on which percussion can be played on a stock B-3, period. There is a switch under that key that activates the percussion section (I am pretty sure, but haven't asked at Ham Tech, that if you short that switch, you can add perc to the upper manual registration any time using the perc switch).

The "Cancel" key cancels out whatever adjust key has been depressed and causes that manual to fall silent. It effectively acts as an "Off" switch for that manual. Handy when you're playing in a church and don't want to annoy everyone by accidentally striking a key while getting up, gathering scores, etc. Just don't forget to select a preset before you start the next piece....

 

That's exactly what I need. This overdrive make me want not to play. Well, making this like B4 + Amp Simulator (anything that fits) + another B4 for Leslie is more than a single B4 CPU Usage, eh?

And, since they updated most of their products lately, will there be a B4 update? (B4 III maybe?)

 

18. correct the volume problem (finally)...
Higher notes are way louder than lower ones. Makes it almost impossible to play live unless you insert a multiband compressor. VB3 does not have this problem, btw.

The sound of the "drive-unit" is ridiculous, given the fact that NI has developed Guitar Rig and could easily transfer a little know how to the B4-Cost Centre...

Currently I use VB3 and will continue to do so unless B4II gets a major overhaul.

Cheers,
André

 

It's been a 1.5 year since the last update. Either they dropped B4 or they aren't paying attention enough.

 

I've tried all the amps in Guitar Rig 3 as inserts "after" the Leslie (in the SONAR effects tray) but none sound anywhere close to correct. Maybe an answer is inserting one "before" the Leslie, I don't know. I'd like to try, but... well you know.

We've been talking about the crappy overdrive in B4II since it came out. Why has nothing been done?

Knock knock, NI, anyone home?

 

Or you could run your clean line-out signal into a real-tube distortion pedal. I'm doing something similar at the moment to try out the Line Six Tone Core "Roto-Machine" Leslie simulator pedal, which sounds just magnificent and very realistic from my C-2G into a stereo PA setup. I just started m,essing with this setup tonight, but it sounds promising...
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19. Support for full touchscreen operation, preferably in conjunction with a *true* full-screen function, so that if one has a 15" or 18" touchscreen, for example, one could change presets on-the-fly in a live situation by simply touching the corresponding reverse key. Same with other input switches, etc. Hell, with a big enough touchscreen you might even be able to play songs on the touchscreen...heh heh heh...

 

Fix the Overdrive sound in B4 ll. The original B4 sounded much much better and smoother.

 

I had a look on the digital village website and they are selling B4 II at a ridiculously low price since they are having a clearance. One thing, then. B4 II is out of production so this either means that B4 III is coming out or that we are seeing the last of the B4 line.