Worst Part about FS2

any other MAC users not have this issue? I'm running Windows XP Professional SP2 and do experience the issue.

 

It seems SWB who originally started this post has found a new home on the serato rane board... interesting. I know a DJ who ones Serato and will have to see how well their software/hardware works. I know the scratch live does not have the sound quality that FS 2 has and that it also lacks the key lock feature. The question is: does it handle the basics (scratching and mixing) well enough to warrant a switch? Probably not, but I shall see... happy spinning.

2X 1200 Technincs
2X DJS Ortofons
Rane TTM 54
Powerbook 867 MHZ
640 RAM
OSX 10.3.6

 

thanks for the detective work inspector! lol

 

actually i don't have SSL yet, but i want to get it, do you think i'm making a bad decision here? read the other thread for more of my reasoning

 

romerom: the buffer problem is a problem for people rewinding their tunes. Ever heard how drum'n'bass, reggae, dancehall dj's spin their music? They often do what's called rewinding and it includes stopping a record and starting over while the people listen. It can be done with the volume down. But as a vinyl emulator that's just not good enough. FS should act like regular vinyl.

 

iBook or PowerBook? Would be nice to know.

 

I have the same problem and it is annoying when trying to que a record up to mix and you keep getting the sound from where you left off for a few seconds, I also play funk/raregroove in which i do rewind records and stop half way through to start again during some sets, So it is a small problem that needs to be fixed, I got this response from NI via email but will try it out later

Try to adjust the \"record lead in time\" and the \"Rumble Threshold\". These
parameters can be found in the setup menu under \"timecode\". It requires quite a
bit of checking this and that...

 

I tried changing the threshold and adjusting the lead-in time but still having the same problem, does anyone know what FS1 Lead-In Time actually does as it seems to have no affect when changed, is it just for FS1 Records?

 

I finally had a chance to spin on the serato scratch live thing. The buffer problem is very minimal on that system. There is a bit of latency maybe a 1/4 of a second when going to the beginning of the track. With FS2 it is about a second and a half. Both systems have needle drop latency, but the serato seems to do better there. Both systems keep up with scratch movements although FS 2 sometimes loses the scratch point on the record relative to the song. I think these two problems have to do with the algorithm that the 2 systems use. It seems that serato's algorithm can be decipher a little faster than fs2's beause it is shorter. I do like FS2 user interface a little more than serato. Search functions and organizing songs are better in FS2 than serato. With FS2 you can organize with keywords without drop and drag into record crates if you don't want to. I don't know if I will be making the switch yet. It would be nice if Hobbes could comment on the algorithm issue, because the foundation of the systems are based on that, and if scratch live has a shorter algorithm then it is only a matter of time before it is deemed the superior product as far as vinyl simulation.

DJ Vortex
Rane ttm54
Technics 1200
Ortofons DJS
Powerbook 867 MHz
640 MB RAM
FS2
MAC OS 10.3.7

 

What do you mean by "shorter" algo?

You mean SSL has an algo. of 10 lines long and FS2 is 15 lines long? or do you mean SSL runs in O(n^2) and FS2 runs in O(n^3)???

 

The buffer problem is being worked on. I can tell you that we have been discussing this issue at great lengths so that it can be completely understood why this happens, and how to fix it.

Hobbes

 

Algorithms define needle position in the absolute mode. The length of the algorithm would affect latency when you needle drop and have less of an affect when you scratch because the systems "already knows where you are." When you needle drop the systems has to find where you are all over again and this can only be done by reading a complete algorithm. If a complete algorithm is say 18bits (or lines like you used in your example, mexicannn) on serato and 29bits with FS2, then it would take serato less time to read one algorithm and narrow in on where exactly the needle has been dropped to, get it? (i don't know the actually size of the algorithms, the numbers used were just examples)... Thanks Hobbes, it's good to know NI is working on the issue, I think...

DJ Vortex
Rane ttm54
Technics 1200
Ortofons DJS
Powerbook 867 MHz
640 MB RAM
FS2
MAC OS 10.3.7

 

I think you are confusing "the length of the algo." with "the time it takes the algo. to run".

Heres are examples:

1)Short_alg(int x):
for x * x * x:
say hi.
end

2)Long_alg(int x):
for x * x:
if x is odd:
say hi
else:
say bye
end

See the second algo "seems" to look longer but it actually is faster then the first one since it only loops areound 2 times compared to 3.

Also when you say "reading the complete algorithm" I think you mean "reading all the input" like reading all the timecode from point x to point x.

You are not actually right here as once the needle drops thay could read ever other bit coming in the stream, or every bit that appears ever 10ms.... etc. so they would not have to read in all the bits.

I'm not sure if you have a background in CS but algorithms are just pieces of code that do something.

..but anyways I'm just rambling on about algorythms.

 

What I dont understand is, basically cueing with a CD deck is like a needle drop with vinyl. Now I havent read any issues about the needle drop responsiveness and FS2, then why does it freak with the CDs?

 

Not quite sure.... Hobbes / native girl did you find anything out from NI about this?

 

nothing official, but i would assume it gets fixed with tds 2.6, which will come in a near future...

:afro:

 

Okay I am finally here with my new FS. Yeah this is a big issue.. How many trance DJ's and House DJ's have songs where the Beat doesnt start right away because of Vocals or Long Ambient intro.. this is the reason for having to needle drop . rather than spinning all the way through the intro to find your first beat. I have tried everything I can think of.. even pausing for a few seconds before i place the needle back down and still same thing.. Seems like the Latency is worse with this situation.

I hope they do have a fix for this, because that is a real big NO-GO in my book.. Gosh.. you would think they would have some DJ's on their R&D team.

 

I have to agree with you 100%. I love that SSL (which I own) works as it should, needle drop is decent, I can backspin and all that jazz. But OMG the interface is horrible. There's been many of discussions on the board about the interface, and it's similar to the MP3 vs. WAV discussion on Ableton Live's forum... (mainly that the old skool developers don't want to incorporate new design ideas.. heh) point is, NI's got a great interface and search function... whenever I use TDJS I just love it... but then I'm not playin on vinyl.

But even the needle drop latencey in SSL is getting complaints, and they're supposed to be shorttening it up a bit with the new 1.3 patch.

 

i gotta disagree, i had SSL for a few weeks now, and I love the interface, i think it's better than the FS2 one. I like how it integrates iTunes better than FS2 also.

Only thing i dont't like about SSL is how i can't analyze my entire collection.

To me, vertical waveforms are better and more useful when djing.

 

Honestly, the vertical waveforms don't bother me.... but I wish they would integrate a way to turn those spinning bars off and make room for bigger displays of the overall waveform. I know that the bar is nice for scratch DJ's, but I can't find one techno, trance, house, breaks dj (who doesn't scratch) that needs those things. Plus, they even said that those things are a cpu hog too...

other than that, I can deal with SSL interface just fine. I too love how it integrates the iTunes DB... that's dope. I really wish they would find a way to get songs off the ipod without having to import the whole collection tho.