Xone 3D (4D) tsi

hello all

after quite a bit of work i've completed a midi map for the xone 3D that has proven to be quite functional which i'd like to share with the community. it's a deck based metaphor that deviates from some of the traditions of the existing traktor maps.

the big one is that the deck layout is 1-C 2-A 3-B 4-D putting the top decks in the center of the mixer and the lower decks on the outside. why? that's what makes the most sense to me.

most of the functions are directly mapped to a particular deck, and a few shift commands are focus oriented.

almost all of the functions will instantly switch you to their advanced panel if hidden, so relative to your layout and screen size it may jump a bit. if you use my layouts the master tempo panel toggle and adjust makes a bit more sense. you toggle into the tempo panel and toggle out when you get back to track business.

i included a pdf to show the layout on the mixer; personally i don't use any templates - i wrote it so i should know what does what (not that it happens consistently ) i've started changing the knobs out on my mixer to create more of a tactile map, rather than 6pt text all over the place which i'd never see anyway. if there is interest in proper A3 templates, let me know and we'll hack something together.

this uses the ableton default (map 2), and the lightpipes at the bottom will not always be in sync with what you're doing; unfortunately that's how it is at the moment.

i hope this serves some of you well and take care - t

 

A3 templates

ok, so i made some templates to go along with this one. relatively big text and pastel colors just in time for easter! oops, wrong season. should be easy to use... fun!

 

Updated Zip

This has the .tsi, the .pdf A3 template, and the .pdf midi map guide.

 

Thanks for the midi maps!
Keep us up to date w/ any mods.
Eccentric
---

 

Mixarchitekt:

Two questions.

First, when you say that you have been changing knobs out on your mixer, where are you getting the knobs? Other gear or are you ordering ones that fit the xone specifically. I love the idea, but dont have much experience doing things like that. It would be sweet if i could change the knobs for colored one that i could order somewhere.

That was the less important question. Here is the one that counts. On your overlays, I noticed a feature that I absolutely MUST have working on my dual Xone:1D map, but I am having problems in the implementation. You have one knob for HPF and another for LPF. I am assuming from the overlay that when turned all the way IN toward the "CUT" text, they are at 0% and all the way out they are at 100%.

I can't load your tsi and see if it works like this because the notes are different. (Are the knobs on the 3d/4d the same kind?) I have loaded it and remapped to the knobs i would be using... they are in the same location as your overlay puts them. No dice.

What I get is one knob moving the filter amount from about 10 o'clock to 4 o'clock and the other from 11 to 3. These are the same results as I have achieved by copying the specific mappings from your tsi into my own.

I now have the filter mapped to one analog knob and it goes (unless i am misunderstanding) from 100%LPF to 100%HPF. It is completely impossible to get the knob to zero, so my only way of having entirely unfiltered audio is shutting off the filter with a separate note.

Can you clarify what it is you intended and the functionality you have achieved?

Thanks much.
---
do signatures disappear when you edit a post?

 

hi n

glad to see you're getting some use/inspiration out of this chaos. you should be able to load the tsi and use half of it for your 1D; that doesn't really do much for your application but should get you a little bit of hands on action with some features. after NAMM i should have a fully mapped dual 1D version of this available, as i'm looking to move this direction myself.

one of my favorite features of the mapping is the reveals of pages/panels... lots of macro programming there to make sure you get some kind of visual feedback relative to the control you move. cue/move/loop advanced panels reveal themselves as their used, etc. the mode button for the BJ/Loop/In/Out function is very handy for me, as is the separate prev/next cue buttons. i'm thinking of making some dedicated beat jump < > buttons too... then i realize i'm recreating what i was doing with traktor 3 all over again...

ok, back on topic:

the idea with the HPF/LPF is to have a range limited implementation of the deck filter across two knobs. the reason for this was that i found things got a bit out of whack with the entire filter range living on a single analog knob - i could never get it to zero out on the center dent, and the range was too extreme for my taste. i wanted something a bit more subtle and repeatable in results. after some tests i found the 50% setting in either direction to yield the most usable filter range for my taste. it gets the job done in both areas, but isn't so extreme as to leave you with nothing when at the limit of travel.

i chose to put the filter across two knobs for a bit more reliable midi control, and for a visual reference. the metaphor is that lows are on the left and highs are on the right. you turn the hpf clock-wise to filter the lows and the lpf CCW to roll off the highs. using both controls at the same time only averages the position of the filter knob in the application.

the 0 point, or bypass of the filters is completely CCW for the hpf and completely CW for the lpf. the cut point (which is a +/- 50% value) is the opposite position.

when using the mapping you'll need to sweep each knob it's full range - eventually ending on the 0 point for each control, then manually reset the filter knob position on the traktor deck by double clicking it. you will need to do this twice per deck, once for hpf and then again for lpf. this is required at the start of every traktor session to ensure the proper tracking of the midi controls.

step by step for one deck:

launch traktor, make sure you're midi'ed up and have the tsi loaded.

deck a hpf, sweep the full range, end completely CCW. this is the 0 point for that control.

double click the filter control on the deck to return it to zero. sweep the knob on the 1D to verify that it goes from 0 to +50% and back to 0 again.

now do the same for the lpf, sweep the knob the full range from fully CW to CCW, and end at the completely CW position for your 0 point.

back to the deck, reset the filter by double clicking it, then check the range when the lpf knob is swept so that the full stop of CCW is -50% and CW is 0.

you should now be able to use the knobs as intended and have consistent results.

as for the knobs i started with switching stuff from other xone mixers i have (which just got me a change in diameter), then tried to adopt some bits from a soundcraft console, but those were set completely opposite of what i needed. i did use the fader caps from that guy to get some color into the mix (the move fader for each deck is a different color red, yellow, blue, black). my next trip to the electronics store will yield some more options and then on line part suppliers will fill in the gaps... finding the right shaft size isn't the problem, it's more an issue of feel for the outside diameter and having a color that works.

i'll let you know how the knob upgrade goes... let me know if you have any more questions and take care - tim

 

I haven't had a chance to try and implement the information you shared, but it makes sense to me.

Thanks for taking the time to answer in such good form.

When my dual 1D map is done (soon, as this is one of my last tasks) I'll post it so you can have a look. I'm looking forward to seeing yours as it will be the first dual 1D map I have seen. As a total traktor and midi newbie, I decided to make my own map while learning the software rather than tweaking a 3D map, of which there are several available. I have gleaned much inspiration from your map and the zerowan map, but what I'll have in the end is my own and an accomplishment and has led to a pretty deep understanding of the software and midi capabilities in general.

Thanks for the assist. I'd be sitting here with a worthless manual in one hand and the thumb of my other in my a$$ if it weren't for this forum.

 

Thanks, man. It works perfectly. I increased the sensitivity to 60% which actually gives me 72% of each filter. While I agree that 50% is more or less the most I want to push the filters, the extra range put 50% at a more comfortable place in the rannge of the knob.

Strange, but at 100% it would dial back to -13% when i was in the cut position. why does a setting of 50% give you 50% of the filter but anything more changes the resultant max the filter gives you in the knob's range.

I am sure it has something to do with math.

 

howdy all my first post here...

i'm using traktor pro and a xone 4d and i have loaded your map. everything seem to work fine apart from deck A plays through channel 1 on the mixer and deck B on channel 2 of the mixer

just wondering could you post up how to change this so it matches your mapp.

Thanks

Richie
---
actually no worries just figured it out!

 

@ nomaad

nice mate! i'm glad this helped move you along a bit. making your own map is the way to go; consulting others is always mind opening. i love seeing everyone's interpretation of this freaky hardware/software relationship.

 

I've swapped out some knobs from my Xone:62... its great. they are silver on top and a different diameter. I'd love to get some colored fader tops from a soundcraft board. I seem to remember seeing a whole rainbow of different colors. No overlay for me. This is the way to go. Gives it a way more customized feel.

Any leeds on a parts place I might find all this... what model soundcraft did you canabalize the faders from?

 

there's nothing like tactile feedback is there?

the mixer i grabbed the fader caps from is a soundcraft GB2R (12-2 fwiw) but most any small format console should have something usable. after doing a gig almost in the dark, the light blue caps were hard to pick off of the silver face plate.

if you're in the u$@, i think mouser would be your best bet. they have neutrik/re-an parts (which you'll instantly be familiar with upon seeing them) and some other craziness too. lots of options...

fader caps are consistently called "slide knobs" or "slide control knobs", which should aid in your searching... the slot size for the faders is about 1mm x 18mm - but that's from me measuring with a metal ruler and not something calibrated. ymmv.

here's a link:

http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=slide+control+knob

good luck!
---
btw - how did you get your signature back? mine's missing again.

 

This is from A&H support:

>Do MixWizard fader caps (I am sure I have seen those with colored faders) fit the 1D?

Yes and (if you're looking for a vriety of colours and as long as you're not looking for an exact match with those fitted as standard) any fader cap from the current A&H product range could be used, although some have a marginally larger footprint than the standard caps used on the Xone:1D faders. This would not affect fader movement though.

Any of knobs fitted to the current A&H product range pots could also be fitted to your Xone:1D. They're not all 'skirted', so may not fit quite as snuggly as those that the unit ships with. If you want to fit 'skirted' pot knobs - you could use the Xone:62/464 'SILVER + RED/BLUE LINE' knobs.
AR Sistemas will be able to source these for you directly from us; a list of part numbers of all mixers (including the caps fitted) is available online at:
http://www.allen-heath.com/identify/

Take a look at the GL2's plethora of color choices. I am about to make an order.

I am going to spray paint my controllers black and color code all the knobs and fader caps.

 

First off - thank you for putting this mapping up here. I am always intimated when I get a new controller - especially with this new way of thinking with Pro. You gave me what I needed for a ground floor and what can tweak how I need it to be. Awesome job.

My question is regarding templates - what is the best way to get these printed? I just recently purchased a Xone 4d and I am still learning how to use it - setting your templates on top would be awesome.

Can you go to a professional printer or something - and then how do you cut the holes for the buttons nicely? These are probably stupid questions.....but I really don't know the answer as to how people go about printing out the templates and applying them to their mixers.

 

hi. glad the template is working out for you; it does me quite fine every night as well and can expand and contract to your needs as they manifest.

as for printing, i personally haven't made any other than paper ones for reference. some people are using stickers directly on their controller or on top of template that came with your unit. i could see that laminating a print out would work, although i'd suggest cutting the holes in the paper before laminating it (being easier to cut through one less layer)

outside of that, i would suggest that there may be some sort of local printer that can do inkjets on plastics for you at a decent rate, although in most every case you'll need to cut the holes yourself. getting handy with an exacto blade would be the name of the game.

at a club project i'm working on, we're covering the place in custom printed vinyl - using a similar product that you'd find on bus/car advertisements. that may be the kind of vendor to explore. vinyl vendors have all sorts of solutions available...

or perhaps doing your own screen printing ($40 will get you a hunt-speedball kit to burn your own screens and make prints; great excuse for diy punk t-shirts!)

you can always join nomaad and myself in our world of custom knobs...

 

I'll make it easy for anybody interested... I have been through images of every A&H studio mixer to see all the different color knobs available (took me forever to find the green fader caps) and cross referenced them with their parts guides... here is almost every color available with its official A&H part number.

The cost for a knob is $1.20 and for a fader top $1.80. Contact spares@allen-heath.com.

Green knob top AJ2077A
Black knob top AJ2075A
Red knob top AJ2074A
Blue knob top AJ2076A
Yellow knob top AJ2079A

Red fader cap AJ8079
Yellowfader cap AJ8080
Green fader Cap AJ6691
Blue fader cap AJ6237

I'm still on the hunt for NON-A&H knobs (more than faders) that are beefier... bigger... glow-in-the-dark... etc...

I am going to look into the link you posted later when the kids are asleep (single parenting while my wife is on holiday)... in fact, i have to get their dinner out of the oven before i burn it.

 

Been playing around some more with the Xone. I have an issue. I like to mix completely in my headphones. When you are using Pro, in external mode, it appears there isn't a way to send the preview/headphone monitoring that you can use when you mix internally. I am used to mixing internally.

Now - normally on other mixers this isn't an issue because once you switch the knob from cue to "mix" you get the full sound from each channel you are playing. On the xone, only the channel highlighted as the cue is really Loud and the other channel, that doesn't have cue pressed it somewhat quieter. This will be a problem in the club.

Any ideas? I was trying to find a way to keep 4 audio channels for all decks, but also have away to be able to preview at full volume. Am I making sense here?

There is a choice for a preview output under the preferences when you are setting up the external channels....but by looking at the manual, there is a channel 9/10 but that is the digital out....

Technically you aren't supposed to have 2 channel cues lit up at one time...but it you hit it just right - you can have 2 lit up and going full blast. Pain to hit it right -- and the other issue is, in using this mapping and the cue buttons to highlight the deck, that would make things very cumbersome to be trying that.

Any ideas? I think the idea is that you may have a separate channel in external mode because you can still highlight the little headphone buttons on the traktor pro screen....
---
I think I figured it out - I just didn't have the channel volume up enough, and that is what it relies on.

Assuming you have your channel up to 8 or so - you can hear fine when cueing.

I am still perplexed about all the differences between mixing internally and externally, or at least in regards to what it feels like to me. I am sure I will adjust, it is just so different. Prior to the 4d, I was using a VCI-100 and mixing internally, just basically using 2 decks.

 

@ kkorpos

forgive me if this sounds a bit basic, but you should be able to accomplish what you want by having the cue/mix knob on the headphone monitor section rotated completely to the mix side - any track that is set to cue will still be a bit hotter than the master, but it should give you the result you're looking for... unless you actually want to hear all four decks at (relatively speaking) equal intensity - separate from the master mix.

compared to the xone:92 or v6, the cue/mix knob on a 3/4D has a different slope when going from cue to mix; i tend to work with mine at about the 4 o'clock position, or the last 85-90% of travel on the mix side. on the previously mentioned mixer it was much less, like 60%...

when you're referring to channel volume (which you had up to 8 in the example), are you talking about the pre-amp gain (at the top of the channel strip) or the fader level (at the bottom)?

what specifically is the issue with external mixing that you're facing?

the metaphor of external mixing with traktor is deck based - just like having 1200's/cdj's/etc connected to your mixer... cuing works just like it does on most dj mixers - pre fader listen when the cue is engaged and after fader listen when it's not (provided the cue/mix knob is rotated a bit toward the mix side.)

 

knobs and fader caps

this is what my 3D currently looks like. the colored fader caps are very helpful in grabbing the right control (especially in low lighting), and the larger diameter of the freq knob completely changes the feel of the filters...

 

Very kool...

Kris..