Xone 3D (4D) tsi

That's really impressive considering I never got the templates printed out and currently have markered up pieces of masking tape placed all around my 4D. It has proved helpful though....I'll have to take a picture, as it looks really ghetto.

BTW - I am more comfortable with the way I need to monitor now - just took some getting used to -- but over all things are going really well.

As for your TSI -- had a bit of a problem, I made some changes and now every ONCE in a while -- I get this situation where deck B gets caught up in something funky. The BPM will go up to 200 and then fluctuate back and forth - and the track won't run -- it is just stuck and doing crazy things. Any clue on this? Can't figure out what parameters I changed in the TSI that causes this to happen every once in a while - can't even figure out what triggers it. I think though - that if I stop all the other tracks - and then hit Play and Pause at the same time for Deck B - it goes back to normal -- I say I think because it all happens so fast....

 

wicked. similar to the way I have things planned. i am holding off on getting the fader caps and knobs till i move back to the states for a while in about 6 weeks. No sense in having them shipped to me here in Costa Rica. I'm going to color code the knob section as well.

Great use of the V6 knobs. I hadn't thought of that. and... um... nice V6. can we be friends?

Being a Xone head, you may be able to help me with a problem I have been having on my 62. (off topic, i know. but...) When I route a channel to either side of the x-fader, I lose audio from that channel on the right side. In effect, I can only mix with my channel faders and cannot use my onboard filter which i like so much more than the ones in traktor. I am going to open the case tomorrow and see if there is any kind of bug life that has moved in (this happens with nice warm electronics in the cloudforest). Another bonus to being back in the US for a while is that I'll be able to send the 62 in for repaur if this is what is required. (Costa Rican customs regs would have me paying 30-50% of the value of the mixer to have it returned to me after service.

Any ideas you have would be appreciated.

 

3 possible controls come to mind - seek position, tempo bend, and master tempo. i would start by sorting your midi map alphabetically then check to see if there are multiple mappings of those functions. the default settings in my tsi are:

tempo bend: note b-1
tempo bend: note a-1
seek position: cc 45 m2=1
seek position: cc 37 m2=1
master tempo: cc44 m2=1

perhaps that will reveal if some random control was accidentally learned when it wasn't supposed to be. gotta love those surprises. in some way it sounds like a tempo bend got set to something unexpectedly. i know that they'll pitch a track crazy and then stop it from playing (especially the - tempo bend)... is it that master tempo of traktor that goes up or is it deck based?

another variable that just showed up for me was the rotary encoder i have mapped as the shift key on the 3D, is also the shift for the Xone:4D's midi state. i discovered that at namm this year, where in the process of seeking tracks i shifted states, futzed around shifting back, and sent tracks out of sync through one too many button presses.

getting out of LFO editing can make things interesting too, but that feature is so amazing and useful i don't mind jumping over any hoop to use it. perhaps we should hack the firmware and create a dedicated command for it that doesn't require the multi button trigger.

let us know if any of this helps or if the cause reveals itself otherwise.
---

i don't have too much to contribute other than trouble shooting the xfader itself. sometimes re-seating connections can do wonders for situations like these or it may be time to have the xfader replaced.

being a vca control, you're not routing audio directly though it, so i'd think it would have to be a connection; otherwise there would be intermittent sound or at least scratchiness. my 3D has been through a full set of linear faders already, but they're not vca's like the 62 has and a bit more susceptible to grime and such.

which makes me think about the xfade pan control, which in looking at the block diagram doesn't seem to be a vca, so it could be related to that. i'm sort of talking out of the side of my head since i don't have a 62 to test with, but you could sweep that pot to see if it reveals anything.

most of the pots are self cleaning, so if it was to freak the audio out a little bit you could work the pot back and forth for a few mins under a bit of pressure and it would clean the contacts. i have to do that on the preamp gains on the V6 regularly.

that's a bummer about the tax. let's hope that it fixes itself or is something easy to handle once you're in the states.

as a side note, the black/silver fluted knobs came from a VF-1 (the V6 is well worn, but keeps it's originals ) but there are a lot of variations on that design that should work well. i would also recommend that using knobs that have a set screw make the process a lot easier, since many random knobs i had laying around were found to have their shafts cut opposite to the way the 3D likes to receive them...

 

Thanks for the feedback. My haven't been using my xfader much because all my jungle is on vinyl and I have been mixing exclusively with traktor for a while. One day I notice that my xfader was feeling less-than-smooth, so I took it out and triued to clean it up a little. Maybe when I put it back in, i didn't seat it just right. I will look into this as well as your other suggestions.

 

Thanks for the info on possible conflicting mappings in the tsi -- I will have a look at this and see what I can come up with.

I have been dealing with it -- no disasters yet. When I hit the play and pause button at the same time on the deck that is doing this (Deck B) it fixes the issue....

Just weird stuff....and hopefully with your information I can find the culprit. Thanks!

 

How are you guys mixing in the headphones with the Xone 4d? I have a 62 and use the split cue feature to completely mix in the headphones all night if its really noisy. Not sure how that could be done on a 4D.

 

the 4D, as well as many other mixers in the xone line (92, V6, 3D, 42) have a different cue section than the 62.

a blend of your cue'd track and the master mix is continuously adjustable with a mix knob above the headphone level. fully counter clockwise is all cue, fully clockwise is the master. i run around 2-4 o'clock most of the time, which sets the cue slightly hotter than the master. it's very handy...

 

I'm tempted, although still undecided about having to learn a new way of cueing. Do you have any experience with split cueing? I'm eager to know your thoughts between the two. Split has been my method of choice for the past few years, I only take my headphones off when I need a break from them. That might change with adding midi to my setup since with timecode you obviously need to spend more time cueing to get things lined up. With split cueing I'm able to get my levels completely dialed inside of the headphones by getting them even in both ears. Plus if I'm stuck in a mix and cannot tell one track from the other I can always bring up one of the tracks in one ear to adjust it. Not sure if I'd have that sort of precision just by bringing the volume down on the master in the headphones. It's nice to completely separate one track from the mix.

I've been confused as to why A&H decided to leave this feature out on the 4D. It's at least selectable on the 92. How is the 4D being used in performances? Are most Dj's using an external monitor source when they perform with the 4D? (whether it be the master system or booth monitor)

I'm trying really hard to convince myself its OK to get a 4D Its just the cueing system is in the way. I might try to find a 92 to demo locally to get a feel for it before placing my order.

Edit: It would be nice if Traktor itself could emulate Split Cue somehow. That might help solve my problem.

 

hi. i do have experience with split cueing, but my preference has always been the cue/master mix. for me, i was always able to get tracks locked super tight with the cue mix in my ears, eliminating the need for using the booth monitor in most circumstances. it does have me riding the mix knob a bit - rolling over to just cue for finding positions and reviewing tracks, then sliding to the 2-4 o'clock position for beat matching, eventually moving to 100% mix as the tracks are introduced. level adjustment was/is a matter of seeing the post-eq level on the channel meters (which is how the 4D functions although the manual states otherwise; that was a change from the 3D i had something to do with ) and then further adjusted as the channel fader is brought in to what's already playing. then as the other tracks are being mixed out or riding for a bit, i'll pull up their cue into the cans to adjust their pitch, possibly adjusting the cue mix knob as needed. it's a method to my madness that was quite fruitful when i was using 4 cdj's and a V6 or 92 (before traktor). it could be said that i had one hand on the cue mix knob quite a bit.

now that i'm using the beat grids and track sync functions of traktor, i'm still moving the cue mix knob a bit, and using the pitch bend buttons to lock things tighter if the grids are loose (or if it just sounds better relative to track content.) i rarely use the booth monitors unless the mains are obscured relative to booth location. usually just a bit to fill in the details, but not ear bleeding loud...

i can see your concerns with being a split cue user. it would require a bit more of the one ear on, one ear off with a monitor to simulate it, which isn't always the best thing for ear health. while i can't confirm this outright (at this moment), it wouldn't surprise me if you could perform a quick mod to the cue section to get what you want. i've modified my 4D quite a bit, changing aux sends to post eq, changing the channel fader slope, etc. the 4D sums the cue to mono if i'm not mistaken, so dropping that to the left channel of the headphone output and having the right be mix only shouldn't be super complicated. probably cutting a few lines on the board and soldering a jumper or two.

 

Thank you for your help. I have placed my order It will take some time to get used to a new way of mixing, but things evolve.

I use a small headphone amp with my current setup (mini 3). So I'm sure I could just make a custom cable for it that connects one channel of the amp to the booth output giving me split cue if I absolutely need it

With moving to the 4D there is going to be alot of changes to my workflow. Where should I start? by downloading and playing with your maps? I'm trying to get things beat gridded, but thats really slow.. I'm tempted to gather all of my samples/ loops for triggering.

I can see how post-eq meters can help. I use the one on the 62 that is next to the master when bringing tracks in.

 

everyone's work flow will be different, and with time and experimentation you'll find something that fits for you.

if the deck based metaphor that is expressed in my maps makes sense to you, it may be a good starting point. there's a lot under the hood that i haven't totally documented, like panel reveals, macro functions with sync, etc. i need to update the maps for slightly more graceful 4D use. the shift knob also shift's the 4D's midi, so it's possible to get lost for a moment switching midi channels and the like.

otherwise, there's lots to map out on your own. i spent quite a lot of time drawing up different ideas for control of traktor via the 3D/4D... exploring all sorts of strange options just to exhaust concepts and arrive at something solid. it's quite fun. so much to discover and revise.

 

It sounds like the final frontier. How do you suggest handling the mixture of Time Code decks and MIDI Decks?

 

hmmm. i honestly can't say much since i've always used traktor with midi decks exclusively. i left my whiky-whiky in 2003, although my decks are still around for listening.

cd time code seems silly to me too, since traktor sync is quicker than bpm math on a cdj (100 divided by track bpm, rounded to the nearest .02% interval, repeated as many times as it takes to get to your target bpm then added together.)

ex - 126 track bpm, 128 target bpm

100/126 = .793
100/127 = .787
.793 + .787 = 1.58

+1.58 pitch adjustment will lock your 126 bpm track @ 128 on a cdj with pitch set to +/- 6%

how's that for a tangent?

sorry for not being much help in that department. i may have some perspective in a few weeks as a friend joins the TSP/4D club...

 

With everything beat gridded, it doesn't make too much sense to mix with timecode, but ppl like to see records going around. It adds some animation to the atmosphere I guess. ..and gives an old school nostalgic feel for us old fogies.

When ppl walk in to the lounge I play at and see the turntables, they get a little excited and always comment on the setup.

 

Is mixarchitekt-x3d1_7B.tsi the latest?

 

"Default" Traktor Pro - Xone 3D MIDI map .tsi template?

Thanks mixarchitekt, for all your great work and information posted here. It is really nice to have a competent user providing this valuable information, as most people seeking answers are usually relegated to wading through hundreds of posts that are useless.

I am writing to ask if anyone has a .tsi file that provides the same functionality as the "ACBD 4 deck" interface that was standard with Traktor 3. Native Instruments claims that this file is included with Traktor Pro (mac user > documents > native instruments > traktor > settings > midi mappings > allen & heath > xone 3d), however when imported, this file did not control any MIDI parameters for my unit.

I've tried several other user-designed maps, which did function correctly for their unique design, however none of them performed the same way the "default" map did. Here are links to these maps:

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45168 3&postcount=7

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=734 21)

http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=769 09

http://www.nativeinstruments.de/forum_de/showthread.php?t=73 508&page=3


If anyone knows of a working .tsi file that maps the MIDI the same way the NI lexan overlay that came with the Xone 3D (for Traktor 3) is located, I would be most appreciative.

Thanks,
sk

 

A&H's .tsi's

Hey,

Not sure if these will help you out but It's worth a shot....
See Allen & Heath's Mappings. They seem to follow the same layout as NI's. These are what I'm useing w/ my Xone 4D until I get the hang of them, They come w/ overlays etc...

then I may move onto a more advanced tsi like the one posted in this fourm...

http://allen-heath.helpserve.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=112

http://allen-heath.helpserve.com/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=90


Reguards,
DJeccentric

 

A & H + NI default .tsi files do not work for my unit

DJ Eccentric,

Thanks for the reply. I do appreciate the support.

I have tried using a couple different default versions offered by A & H and by NI (including the one's you've posted before): neither of them worked for my Xone 3D. When A & H responds to my tech support ticket, they will no doubt try to point me in the same direction you did.

Right now I have a user made file entitled "BDX_Tpro_3D_4Decks_MIDI" that works on my machine. I'm trying to tweek this template to resemble the default design, and will post this .tsi file when I am successful.

Thanks,
Shawn

 

yes it is the latest, but there will be an update soon to reflect a few refinements for easier 4D use - starting with moving the software shift button to the right side of the unit to not trigger the mixer's built in shift state.

my personal map has shot forward in a few ways with blinky lights, the moved shift button, etc. but may not be usable for the general public as i dropped the controls for traktor's effects completely, removed the pan and filter bits, and added support for the eventide time factor instead.

it shouldn't take long to get it up other than changing the print templates, so hold tight.

 

No biggie, I'm actually just using your templates as a guide for my own, since my work flow is almost 180 degrees different.

..I fell like I'm hijacking this thread, Maybe I should start my own.