Z2 Catalina Support

Discussion in 'KONTROL Z2' started by tricky_trev_Tf, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. tricky_trev_Tf

    tricky_trev_Tf NI Product Owner

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    yeah, the sequence is consistent: audio in/out OK, combined with midi out (eg: Mac sends level LED updates on Z2) - everything fine, then add some midi in (eg. z2 fader data to Mac), and gone. single packets, such as the browse encoder take longer to reproduce, so I suspect it is just about getting the timing between the packets right. The midi in and midi out are on different endpoints.

    I have to say the packets/sec for in data is much higher than the packets/sec for out data.

    IOHIDLibUserClient:0x10000087b setReport failed: 0xe00002d6 (the timeout) repeats at 5sec intervals while the audio continues.

    Two possibilities:
    1. noting that in/out data is on different endpoints, the Z2 could be losing the request (in a buffer or the USB controller?) from the Mac to send data on the USB line?
    or
    2. IOHIDLibUserClient (or close to it) is for some reason not sending out the midi data (known as the "complete") from the Mac to Z2 after sending a "submit", resulting in the timeout. (or IOKit is getting in the way?) (<-- NI seem be supporting possibility #2 by passing the issue on to apple to solve).

    I am also wondering about Driverkit taking over IOkit in future releases?
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  2. oxident

    oxident NI Product Owner

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    That's some excellent research tricky_trev_Tf Would be nice to have some words from N.I. about it...
     
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  3. Benjamin Bykowski

    Benjamin Bykowski New Member

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    The info provided by tricky_trev_Tf got me curious. The code for macOs is open source and the documentation includes notation on major changes.
    https://developer.apple.com/documentation/iokit?changes=latest_major&language=objc

    All source code:
    https://opensource.apple.com/source/

    It might be in IOHIDFamily:
    https://opensource.apple.com/source.../IOHIDFamily/IOHIDLibUserClient.cpp.auto.html

    I will look at my logs to see if I can see where this might be getting called but without the source code from Traktor, it's like finding a needle in a haystack.

    I think this is where NI needs to break the silence and provide some explanation about this.
     
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  4. tricky_trev_Tf

    tricky_trev_Tf NI Product Owner

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    Exactly. It is always a lost URB INTERRUPT "out" packet. always. totally repeatable.
    Yep. NI can debug IOKit themselves easily in Xcode (they have the source code - I don't).
    Unfortunately the later releases don't have a "log-enabled" IOkit kext avail. in the past it could be done without the source/Xcode.
    Since they have brought apple into it already, I wonder what NI found in Xcode to inform apple?
    or what did they find debugging the Z2 itself - and Traktor?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
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  5. Rayco León Luzardo

    Rayco León Luzardo NI Product Owner

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    Turns out that you're advancing more than NI. Than for the efforts guys, adds some hope.
     
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  6. oxident

    oxident NI Product Owner

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  7. Mindcontrol.dnb

    Mindcontrol.dnb New Member

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    I bought my Z2 about 3 month ago. Play with Traktor for years now and started with final scratch. Now this is absolute bullshit! If NI did not get this Problem fixed it will definitely be the last NI product i have ever bought pls fix this
     
  8. Scott C

    Scott C New Member

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    This isn’t a NI problem, this is an Apple problem and we’re not alone. Aside from DJing I also do photography and build and program robots. At least half of the apps I use for those tasks aren’t fully compatible with Catalina, including adobe photoshop, some HP printers, Canon camera apps, and numerous coding programs. Unfortunately I didn’t find this out until I purchased a new MacBook Pro with Catalina. My plan was to keep my old MacBook with iTunes as a stand alone music/DJ computer and use the new computer for everything else. Now my cameras, printer, and robots can’t connect to the new computer. I basically bought a brand new $3000 media player. Long story short, before you get all fired up at NI, just remember your troubles are only beginning when you switch to Catalina.
    Fortunately I still have the old Mac on Mojave so I guess I’ll be spending more time behind the turntables.
     
  9. tricky_trev_Tf

    tricky_trev_Tf NI Product Owner

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    It doesn't really matter who's problem it is.
    As a relevant example, Yamaha (pro digital mixing consoles) have updated their own kexts for years with their console editor suite to get around Apple updates making their stuff incompatible. NI could debug the IOkit issue (documented above) and use their own kext (kernel extension) instead....

    Yamaha should be the company and customer relations example that NI strive to be.
    Silence has been a typical behaviour of NI for decades.
    I just want my great Z2 working again without me investing more time for a workaround. I am not in the mood to buy another mixer, and want to use Traktor again - and stay up to date.
     
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  10. Steve Mosher

    Steve Mosher NI Product Owner

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    Truth about NI just being NI.
     
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  11. Calupoh

    Calupoh New Member

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    es decepcionante no poder usar Z2 con mac por falta de atención de NI a sus usuarios.:(
     
  12. Leonardo Prozczinski

    Leonardo Prozczinski NI Product Owner

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    All this talk from users trying to solve the problem while NI is just quiet.

    Makes me mad.
     
  13. chilly

    chilly Returning Customer

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    https://www.native-instruments.com/...fter-a-few-seconds.362053/page-3#post-1873533
     
  14. izumo

    izumo New Member

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    Hi, I have a solution for temporary use.
    - Switch Z2 to MIDI Mode
    - Traktor > Preference > Controller Manager > Device, add Generic MIDI.
    - Assignment Table > Map knobs, faders and switchs that you want to use.

    Hopefully, NI fix this issue soon.
     
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  15. tricky_trev_Tf

    tricky_trev_Tf NI Product Owner

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    So with kexts now deprecated in macOS, it means NI need to upgrade Traktor and NI drivers to Driverkit anyway (the drivers are now in the app - not the kernel), so apple will just put this back onto NI, and I doubt we will see a fix in IOkit. By using the word "hope" in NI's response it implies that NI are not doing this and are merely "waiting" for apple to solve the problem that NI can solve themselves. Good luck for 10.16.

    And while on that note, why not just drop USB (5h!t simplex data transmission with high overheads) altogether and go full duplex ethernet (like firewire was) such as using an industry standard protocol like Dante (or similar) on future audio devices?
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  16. oxident

    oxident NI Product Owner

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    If what tricky_trev_Tf said is true, it would be nice to have some Traktor coder to discuss.

     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  17. DjJascha

    DjJascha NI Product Owner

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    Simply genious - That was it! I've mapped the basic features like loading, volume, eq. Played for around 30min without crash :thumbsup:
    Thank you, now I can delete my partition with the old OS again.

    Maybe someone knows a ready template for Z2 generic midi with all it's features mapped :)
     
  18. TomWJones

    TomWJones New Member

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    WELP guess the Z2 is just a big old analog brick now. Ridiculous.
     
  19. Sander @ NI

    Sander @ NI NI Team NI Team

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    As also said in the other thread, Kontrol Z2 is class complaint and does not need a driver as its provided by the OS using Core Audio!
     
  20. Steve Mosher

    Steve Mosher NI Product Owner

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    And also said in the other thread 'flashbacks of the S4, sell the Z2'