Z2 Catalina Support

Discussion in 'KONTROL Z2' started by tricky_trev_Tf, Nov 7, 2019.

  1. Anti-Skating

    Anti-Skating NI Product Owner

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    43
    "It just works."
    -Apple
     
  2. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

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    Timeframe is irrelevant. If NI cannot fix the issue it doesn't matter when they got a "gold" version.
    Just because NI got developer copies doesn't mean that they had enough time to fix an issue. If an issue can only be fixed by Apple, it doesn't matter how much time NI have had.
    Time isn't the issue.

    ...but they didn't have the issue that NI have. Again, this is a moot point.

    ...and again, you can employ as many developers as you like, if the issue cannot be resolved this end it doesn't matter if its one or one hundred devs.

    They have been. They issued an email before 10.15 came out warning users to update.
    You must remember the NI need work closely and harmoniously with Apple. It's not going to help speed the process up if NI reveal issue in Apple's operating systems. I'd imagine that NI have their hands tied somewhat... this is purely conjecture and my opinion.

    Have you mentioned this over at Apple's support pages?

    Yeah, spot on. I'm sure Apple have a lot on their plate with this.


    No, NI aren't just hoping that Apple will come to the rescue - they have been applying pressure to have this resolved. NI have a good relationship with Apple but they are one of 10's of 1000's (?) of companies that deal with Apple. It must be incredibly frustrating for NI.

    And what will you do when another issue with macOS affects Serato in the same way because if I've learned anything being a digital DJ is that all companies have these problems at some point.

    Well yes, it does matter who's problem it is. If NI can't resolve it, they can't resolve it - I'm clearly not as knowledgable as you in the technical issues here (most of your detail goes over my head) but I hope you're not advocating that NI do something that Apple would not wish them to do. You have to be adult about this, NI need to keep a good relationship with Apple.

    Folks keep saying that NI should tell them what the issue is in detail - well this isn't something NI do unless it's something that Apple condone. You guys are willing to use Apple laptops and you know how they roll so why be surprised when NI don't dish the dirt on Apple (figure of speech but you get my drift).
    Plus, what good would it do? What is anyone in this thread going to do with such information - your Z2 still wouldn't be working.

    Yeah dude and NI know this - you need to realise that NI know how messed up this situation is.

    Personally I think NI have been pretty open with communication of late and have been very honest about this issue.
    NI aren't sitting their hands, I can't give more details than that but I know it for a fact and if there's one thing I've never done is try to plicate members with falsehoods so let's hope there is movement in the right direction very soon because there's only so many times that I'll click the correct button when I'm asked if I wish to 'Restart' and update my machines.

    Karlos.
     
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  3. tricky_trev_Tf

    tricky_trev_Tf NI Product Owner

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    Karlos, do not "pass the buck..." The blame game is too easy to play. And one will lose every time if they do that. All my other devices still work fine - Yamaha are winning, NI are not (why?). "Willing to use apple laptops" is in my opinion better than "wiling to use windows laptops" (maybe for other reasons than this particular iokit issue). Don't bring this into it.

    I've ben beta-testing for you guys since Traktor 1.01 - windows and mac!, and I am NI loyal - I am not falling for the Serato 5h!t.
    If "my details" are "over your head" then you guys need some more support - it was pretty simple stuff!!!, but I think you have a good team so hopefully your remark was an oversight. As a profession, I program and do complex electrical engineering in a completely different field, but it is all relevant: stay up to date, and acknowledge change, and be pro-active.
    Apple won't solve this for you alone. Start working on driverkit for 10.16 (it works in Catalina :)) or modify the existing iokit for 10.15 (open-source!!!!!).
    I am missing my Technics 1210's with T3.... (apart from regular vinyl).

    Apple allow custom kexts (no-one is forced to use iokit) - what is wrong with that? Many of my devices use custom kexts it can even be as imcomplicated as a mouse or game controller...[!]
    NI have probably been more focussed on the traktor features (eg. remix decks, stems, that 99% of us will never use) than the hardware interfaces. Unfortunately, we had the same 5h!t with FS and scratchamp.

    I only posted the details to hopefully help you. If you can give me the iokit logs from Xcode - I will help you more!

    But, I am glad we actually got NI to speak. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  4. tricky_trev_Tf

    tricky_trev_Tf NI Product Owner

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    201
    False. (or not an entirely true statement)
    Core Audio uses URB_ISOCHRONOUS, everything else uses URB_INTERRUPT, URB_CONTROL, or URB_BULK....
    The URB_INTERRUPT (specifically Mac--> Z2 direction, triggered by Z2-mac traffic) is not working properly - NOTHING to do with Core Audio, which is working fine.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  5. kokernutz

    kokernutz NI Product Owner

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    287
    So does macOS 10.15.3 fix the issue?
     
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  6. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

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    Well I can see my light tone and friendliness may be lost on you.

    Passing the buck is when you blame someone else for your own mistake. The Z2 predates Catalina, NI didn't introduce the issue. How is this so difficult for you to comprehend?

    Do your other devices have the same issue? Do you have Yamaha DJ mixer? No, clearly not therefore it's a moot comparison.

    You clearly didn't get my point. The point is, you know what kind of company Apple are. You know they place restrictions on the companies they work with. Did you stop to think that many NI can't share the details of the issue.

    It's probably a good to point remind or inform you that I am not NI. I don't work for NI... bare that in mind.
    I dunno if you have tested for NI in the past but I don't know you from the current beta team (I've been on the team for 11+ years) . If you were on the beta team you wouldn't be in this thread - you would know the facts and accept that NI are doing their best with this and that Apple need to pick the ball up.

    So, for clarity... I'm a forum moderator, not support or a developer. No oversight at all but your tone has been noted.

    Well as we are sharing.. I DJ. That's all I do and all I've done for 25 years... just so you know.

    Not true. I get the feeling you won't accept that but there you go.

    Maybe if your attitude was a bit more conciliatory NI would pay some interest but you do seem a little more intent on stamping your feet.

    Again, I'm not NI.

    Now... just be careful with your response. I am a volunteer moderator, I do this because I care. NI speak to me and I am across the details of this issue much more than you may think. I'm here to help, not to be a punch bag for NI.

    Karlos.
     
  7. davelogan

    davelogan New Member

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    10
    Hi!

    My Z2 working on Catalina 10.15.3.
    Macbook Pro 2018. i7 2,6 15"
     
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  8. Truke

    Truke New Member

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    2
    it doesn't work with me
     
  9. Sander @ NI

    Sander @ NI NI Team NI Team

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    Hi all,

    Unfortunately its not fixed in 10.15.3 but things are moving at Apple now so hopefully some better news soon.

    Best
    Sander
     
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    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. oxident

    oxident NI Product Owner

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    68
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2020
  11. Sander @ NI

    Sander @ NI NI Team NI Team

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    759
    oxident If I am still able to reproduce the bug with 10.15.3, should I write that its fixed? ;)
     
  12. trippcore

    trippcore New Member

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    I have updated to Catalina 10.15.3 and I still have the same problem, I think it is taking too long...
     
  13. tricky_trev_Tf

    tricky_trev_Tf NI Product Owner

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    201
    You have totally mistaken my responses, Karlos. I have enough NI bricks (FS, Scratchamp (sort of Stanton) and 2x A8DJ, and now a Z2) - all because of hardware incompatibility.
    My Yamaha QL1 (Dante) and 01V96i (USB), and Focusrite 18i20 (USB) handle more audio/midi/other channels and predate Catalina and work fine. The 01V96i is the grandfather, predating many many OSX/macOS versions...
    I was in the beta team (when lead by Friedemann) between 2002 and 2009ish, since you ask, and also DJing for about 25years, like yourself, but also a lot of live mixing of bands. If you read the repository all my reports were technical and precisely described. I'm seeing this issue from an engineering point of view, nothing else, and nothing like what you have suggested above. Rarely was anything code/technical shared in the betas anyway - I doubt any beta tester has been exposed to anything technical (code/logs) to help the situation, so our trust is in NI/Apple.
    Cheer up, focus, and let's "hope" NI update Traktor (or the probably un-upgradeable Z2) soon to Driverkit.
     
  14. Mr. Diamond

    Mr. Diamond New Member

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    12
    Chill pill for Karlos? damn man lol smoke some giggle bush or something...
     
  15. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

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    12,056
    I think my morning coffee had just kicked in :confused:... but still, sometimes, someone has to present a balanced view on matters around here. :thumbsup:
     
  16. Steve Mosher

    Steve Mosher NI Product Owner

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    204
    Dude I sold my Z2 too called me pissed ... He went out and got a new Apple laptop. Of course guess what OS is on it :)

    Now he wants his money back ... I giggle ...
     
  17. r4wloop

    r4wloop New Member

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    Hi everybody, same problem here, bought a brand new z2 from Thomann last year and just bought a new Macbook pro a week a go and realise a day before a gig that actually all the knobs and faders stopped working after ~5 sec. So I had to spend all the day before the gig to downgrade to Mojave..
    Completely Waste of bloody time!! :mad::mad:
    I’m really upset with Native Instruments about this problem, I really think that if they don’t fix that within the next couple of months I will sell the Z2 and I will stop using Traktor completely. Most of the people I know uses Serato anyway and most of the people I know that use Traktor they encounter problems at list once.
    :thumbsdown:
     
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  18. steam2300

    steam2300 New Member

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    2
    Do you mind sharing the midi map you made for that? I'm not quite sure how to set that up. I thought I might be able to get it to work using a mapping like this one, but so far I can't seem to have it working on the general midi mode.
     
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  19. Anti-Skating

    Anti-Skating NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    43
    I really wish people would stop telling how bad the Z2 is, and "I'm switching to serato...". Rane hasn't provided guaranteed compatibility even on all of it's recent hardware, so there is no magic cure for Apple breaking compatibility. It has always been the case with MacOS updates, Serato forums flooded with complaining people.

    It's like buying a Rane Sixty One from 2012 (the same year Z2 was introduced), and complaining it ain't the top priority on the to-do list after an OS update.
     
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  20. chilly

    chilly Returning Customer

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    3,131
    While I do appreciate the sentiment, you're not exactly comparing apples to apples here, as Rane offers newer mixers.

    This is NI's only standalone mixer. Buying a new Z2 today vs buying a new seventy or seventy-two are completely different. The latter two models are supported on Catalina.
     
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