User Forum

Zac Kyoti · #1 08-06-2012, 23:25

NI, wake up. Your products are creative, forward thinking, and sound great. Your customer service is simply terrible. I've held off finalizing any judgement until I'd had years and numerous product experiences from which to judge. The final straw for me was this last Maschine on the record where I asked about when we could expect a fix for the well known midi control freeze bug. The question was simply ignored, after having waited weeks for a reply. What the ****

I will probably get flamed hard for this post, and really at this point I don't care. I have reached the end of my rope. I, like so many others, have used NI software and gear for many years, have invested a LOT of money into NI, and have been extremely patient. I will not be purchasing anything more from NI. The headaches are just not worth the reward. I just want products that work, but MORE importantly, I want to be the customer of a company who I feel is in touch with its user base, who actively listens to and monitors its users' concerns and needs.

Let me lay it out straight:
*The user forum is your absolute best barometer of users' actual needs, and best indicator of issues/bugs/software usability that you have.
*There is a SERIOUS disconnect between this valuable resource and your planning and engineering departments. Don't talk to me about moderators being the conduit. Either no one is listening to them, or they are not delivering an accurate account of forum trends. Infrequent "on the record" sessions with omitted questions and clipped answers is not a good solution.
* Get someone who's only job is to monitor (not moderate) the forums, and distill everything that happens there into weekly reports that rank usability, bug, and feature request trends, and who can communicate those things to a engineering department that will listen and prioritize them as a matter of course.
* I'll do it. Hire me. I'll do anything at this point to make that user base to engineering department connection a reality. Why is this so difficult?. I will find every freakin bug you've got, and reproduce it. Bring it on!

I'm not even going to get into the various software debacles that've happened through the years, Native's outright denial of bugs, or weird disconnects like Thomas or Keir being aware of bugs that engineering isn't actively working on, or the same broken feature in four or more software updates. I am going to echo the sentiment that is so obvious throughout the forums:

We want NI to be innovative and to develop new features. But make it a priority to make the core features stable, rock solid, bug free. You know, the features that are the reason we bought your stuff in the first place? The features that you advertised to us?Who gives a cra* about remix decks or tube saturators when we can't even use Maschine reliably as a midi controller, or cue Trakor correctly with a cdj? When did you decide it was ok to make your paying customers beta testers?

I don't like feeling like this. I am passionate about NI gear/software, and am ready to part of a TEAM effort instantly! But I have come to the conclusion that my enthusiasm, experience and in-the-trenches observation falls on deaf ears and just does not go into making NI products any better. It's sad. I will continue to use the NI products I have, because they are the best. But you are losing a return customer. There is so much more to your business than simply being "the future of sound". An amazing resource of real human beings is at the controls of everything you sell. You need to remember that.

Native Instruments is dead!
Long live Native Instruments!

hotsauce · #2 08-06-2012, 23:51

+1000000000

skinsfandc · #3 09-06-2012, 02:58

See ya later!

noiserot · #4 09-06-2012, 03:08

skinsfandc wrote:

See ya later!

I don't think he's going anywhere. Notice that while he said he won't be buying any more NI products, that he will continue using the ones he has. He's upset that his question about an issue he's having didn't get addressed in the On the Record session. I'm not sure how making grand gestures and empty threats in the forum would be effective at all to make NI developers solve particular issues any quicker though.

just1n · #5 09-06-2012, 05:02

Op sounds spolied, it's just a bug, it will get ironed out in a future version of maschine.

Zac Kyoti · #6 09-06-2012, 07:30

Guys, I'm bummed I feel the need to defend myself, but I guess some of you don't know me, my history on the NI forum, or aren't reading carefully.

Noiserot, you are absolutely right. I'm not going anywhere, and a big ass post like this in the forum IS next to useless as far as getting anything accomplished. But it's really the only channel I have to potentially express anything that could get through to the mothership. But it was mostly just for me to get some ish off my chest. Try to understand.

I've been on this forum for almost 4 years, and have used NI software much longer than that. All that time I have always been about problem solving, sharing knowledge, and general positive approach. This long post rose out of years of experience with NI's customer support and response, observation of other users' experiences, and a building disappointment. It didn't happen overnight.

If you think my issue is just about an unanswered question, you're missing the point. I'm venting about a systemic failure to respond to key elements of stability and usability, over a range of products, over a number of years. Maybe you guys aren't part of the Traktor community?

Hopefully you guys can understand. I would like what I paid for to not freeze up in a live show. But I would've settled for a simple update on progress for a fix. Last I looked, the main thread on this issue had 5,700 views. I think people want to know about it. When NI omits an answer to a question about a show stopping bug, they are also giving a big FU to every other Maschine user out there.

Peace, I hope we can see eye to eye, guys.

dej47 · #7 10-06-2012, 04:11

This is a reoccurring issue i've seen posted here and the DJTT forums, NI's customer service. I'm saying this post from a point of constructive criticism.

You guys make really awesome products, but your customer service is weak. I haven't had to deal with it too much but even the times i've called it took forever before I got through. Customer service really does go a long way. I've been fortunate that I've had almost no problems with my NI products, besides the odd software bug but for the people who seem to be left in the dust on issues, that sucks. You guys would be incredible if your products were supported with great customer service. I think you guys should revamp your entire customer service department

jbfuller · #8 10-06-2012, 04:30

I've never had a single issue, I have a ton of NI gear, hardware and software, and I run it all from a really old computer with bad specs.

I'm not discounting your experience, but not everyone's is the same. Reading posts like these doesn't change my experience because it's been good. And you have to admit, at least 75% of the time when you read a post from someone having a problem it's an operator error. I'm not saying they all are, about 3/4, but most people complaining on here don't have a clue about even the most simplest of things and they end up asking questions like "Why isn't there sound coming out of my mixer?"

So take a step back and imagine that NI is spending time answering all of these questions, all of these ridiculous questions, but they don't have time to get to you. Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

If the OP, or any of the responders, is a Customer Service Dept manager for a software+hardware company at least as big as NI then I'm interested in their ideas, otherwise STFU and RTFM.

Zac Kyoti · #9 10-06-2012, 09:26

@jbfuller: Your perspective is well taken. Native has a lot to deal with, for sure. It's a tough balancing act. In this case though, there's no issue of user error, it's a known bug that NI has chosen not to address for unknown reasons, some of which could even be legal in nature. Familiarize yourself: http://www.native-instruments.com/fo...d.php?t=150713

This one is a big deal. Do a search and find numerous other threads on the subject. It is bad business not to attempt to address the community regarding this bug, and know that I'm not one to complain lightly. Just for your reference, no - I'm not in software company management, but I do develop software and mos def know the difference between limitations and bugs. I've been making electronic music since 96 and like you don't have problems unless something is actually broken.

This thread isn't really about that anyway, though it was the catalyst. Thanks for the input regardless. I've kinda resigned myself to thinking there's no one truly responsible for monitoring the user base, and thats that. Bad day, bad attitude on my part, movin' on. It's off my chest, I hope someone at NI gives a care, and that this thread will fall to the back of the pile

Unfortunately I can't undo a rant that won't accomplish anything (peeps definitely right about that).

THE WIDOWMAKER · #10 10-06-2012, 09:57

my experience has always been top notch - when i have had issues (small ones with reaktor updates around version 3.5) they were resolved reasonably and via e-mails to customer service - i never used the forums as it's not really going to help.

just to keep things balanced.

sowari · #11 10-06-2012, 12:14

Zac Kyoti wrote:

I've kinda resigned myself to thinking there's no one truly responsible for monitoring the user base, and thats that. Bad day, bad attitude on my part, movin' on. It's off my chest, I hope someone at NI gives a care, and that this thread will fall to the back of the pile

Unfortunately I can't undo a rant that won't accomplish anything (peeps definitely right about that).

so what do you think Keir does then?

and haven't you noticed that Mads has been answering questions lately?

sowari

jbfuller · #12 11-06-2012, 04:17

I hear you on that issue, but I don't use Ableton so it doesn't apply to me. You at least have to admit it's a tertiary benefit of Maschine, the thing was never built to run Ableton. I understand the gripe, and it's legitimate if NI says it can do that, but still, it's not the purpose.

macchinista · #13 11-06-2012, 05:28

jbfuller wrote:

I hear you on that issue, but I don't use Ableton so it doesn't apply to me. You at least have to admit it's a tertiary benefit of Maschine, the thing was never built to run Ableton. I understand the gripe, and it's legitimate if NI says it can do that, but still, it's not the purpose.

The Maschine freeze bug for Mac OSX is not just with Ableton. As long as you have Maschine in MIDI controller mode, then it is going to happen. Ask Traktor users, they have seen it too. So, no, it's not a tertiary use of Maschine. At least secondary since it is being marketed and sold as a MIDI controller too. As such, it does not work as advertised on Mac OSX. It's as simple as that.

noiserot · #14 11-06-2012, 05:38

macchinista wrote:

The Maschine freeze bug for Mac OSX is not just with Ableton. As long as you have Maschine in MIDI controller mode, then it is going to happen. Ask Traktor users, they have seen it too. So, no, it's not a tertiary use of Maschine. At least secondary since it is being marketed and sold as a MIDI controller too. As such, it does not work as advertised on Mac OSX. It's as simple as that.

It's also possible that it is some sort of Mac OSX USB related issue not specific to Maschine.

macchinista · #15 11-06-2012, 05:43

noiserot wrote:

It's also possible that it is some sort of Mac OSX USB related issue not specific to Maschine.

Possible, but I have plenty of other MIDI controllers which work just fine using the same USB port/cable.