iTunes 8 bug..won't save changed song info.

Discussion in 'Technical Issues' started by DJ_AJ, Nov 23, 2008.

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  1. DJ_AJ

    DJ_AJ NI Product Owner

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    71
    I've just updated to the new version of iTunes 8. I went ahead and changed Genres for many songs in my collection to make them nice and perfect... but soon found a very irritating problem!

    After I change the Genre (or any other information) from song ABC to something new. It "saves" the changes and I see the changes in the view. Though, as soon as I start playing song ABC, it reverts all the changes to the original state; jumping back to the beginning. It doesn't actually save any of it... =oS

    Has anyone experienced this? On an Apple discussion thread someone offered that perhaps iTunes only does this to songs that weren't purchased through iTunes. =oS
  2. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Moderator

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    10,815
    I can confirm this. iTunes8 also has a habit of changing album names that i have amended so that iTunes will download the artwork.
    It has also change tracks that have umlat letters into Apple logos (reported this a month back)
    These tracks are all tagged with the latest id3 version.

    I agree its as though it doesnt want to add artwork to tracks not bought from iTunes. Saying that its totally random , some it messes up, some it doesnt.

    iTunes 8 is a pain. Im not updating iTunes again uless i HAVE to.
    Now ive got the App Store i dont need any of the Genius Bar cr@p.
  3. DJ Greenie

    DJ Greenie Forum Member

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    You may want to check the read/write file status of your tracks. The only time that I've had the problem you describe (iTunes not storing the tag changes to the file itself) is when a track is read-only.

    Something to consider is the tag versions you're using.

    First, do not use v2.4 tags. Use v2.3. I can't even count the number of software vendors I've corresponded with that struggle with v2.4 tags.

    Next, I would strip all your tracks of v1.x tagging. I've seen a lot of issues with MP3s that have information stored in both v1.x and v2.x tags.

    If you're serious about your MP3 tagging, make an investment in Media Rage. Especially if you want to use artwork with your files. You can set Media Rage to run through your entire collection and strip all v1.x tags and convert everything to v2.3.

    I use iTunes fairly extensively for tag management, and haven't run into any problems with Traktor reading updated info.

    Just did a massive batch of tag editing this morning in fact, using iTunes 8.0.2, and verified that all is reading properly in TPro.

    The one area where iTunes does not work well is with artwork. I would disable the feature where iTunes downloads/applies artwork and instead do it manually (or use Media Rage or similar) instead.
  4. smashtheqube

    smashtheqube New Member

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    I'm having a problem with Traktor adding its MP3 information and corrupting my music library. It's driving me crazy.

    Unfortunately, my tracks are indeed v2.4 -- but I can't really do much about that. Is there any way to just have Traktor write its information to a separate file? I don't understand what the big deal about that would be.
  5. adie76

    adie76 Forum Member

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    25
    This sounds like good advice but I am a lowly PC owner and it looks like Media Rage is Mac only. Can you recommend a good PC equivalent?
  6. DJ Greenie

    DJ Greenie Forum Member

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    There are multiple utilities available for both Mac and Windows that will allow you to batch-convert your tracks from v2.4 down to v2.3.

    The v2.4 spec is EXTREMELY buggy. Countless software developers have problems with it. Among the community that developed ID3 (ID3.org), the developers and spec-setters have yet to come to an agreement on specifically how v2.4 should work and be supported.

    Spend the time to convert to v2.3. Seriously.

    As for writing info to separate files, just ask any Torq user how much they hate having separate database and track data files... makes management and portability a serious pain in the arse.

    By writing track info to the file itself, you can dump your tracks onto a thumb drive, CD, etc, and when you load them up on any other system with TPro, all of your track info will be present.
    ---
    Among my colleagues who are serious about their tagging, the unanimous favorite on Windows is Media Monkey.

    http://www.mediamonkey.com/
  7. rodolfow

    rodolfow New Member

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    I don't recommend using media rage, for me it ended up pretty badly. Removing all my v1.x and converting v2 tags to v2.3 made me loose all the tags that were working in tpro, and itunes, and t3 (the ones that weren't written inside t3). Along with the artwork as well.

    I wonder if it can turn the files into read/write format instead of read only with media rage. That could be useful. For now i will just go back to tagging my collection on T3 all over again, writting all tags and importing the collection again to Tpro, uninstall any tag management software and stick to what i payed more money for, Traktor. Some way to spend a sunny sunday afternoon.
  8. DJ Greenie

    DJ Greenie Forum Member

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    32
    I've done countless batch operations with Media Rage on tens of thousands of files, on multiple systems. Never once had a problem losing data or read/write issues. And the end result in iTunes, Traktor and every other MP3-capable application has been perfect.

    I'm not sure what process you used with Media Rage to convert your tags, but this is something I do every time I buy new digital tracks or import them off CD. About once or twice a month I do this for a friend, processing tens of thousands of tracks to "clean" their tags.

    Media Rage is extremely powerful and robust, and when you perform massive batch operations you do need to be careful of what settings you use.
  9. DJ_AJ

    DJ_AJ NI Product Owner

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    71
    Thanks for your responses!

    I've checked the permissions of all my music files (as well as my entire system) after I heard there can be problems with permissions after transferring files from one Mac HD to another. I have recently tranfered my collection form my old powerbook to my new Macbook so I thought this may have been the issue,,, but they all seem to be okay.

    I have also tried using iTunes 8 to convert the ID3 tags of my entire collection from v2.4 to v2.3... but again iTunes won't even write this information to certain tracks. These tracks still appear to be "locked" somehow and I am unable to keep any info I write to them.

    I've checked the source of the files in question to see if that might lead me to the problem, and I found a mix,,, some of these tracks I have purchased from Beatport, some are ripped right from CD, some are iTunes purchases (originally AAC DRM protected files that I have removed DRM via the "burn and rip" method) and some are tracks I have found on Limewire.

    Some of these tracks I see have had custom comments and genre settings ect, added to them in the past, and this info is still embedded in the Mp3 however I cannot write over these fields and make em stick in iTunes 8.

    I don't have the coin to try Media Range at the moment,,, Should I just revert back to iTunes 7? Or am I missing something else here?

    Cheers,
    Aj
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  10. as22

    as22 NI Product Owner

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    203
    this is my world AJ. :( Give Songbird a try. ;) Something funky is going on with iTunes8 lately? All my tracks are either purchased or straight vinyl rips and I have had this issue since I8. I then tried Songbird to start fixing the data on my tracks and it worked out nicely and TPro read everything just fine....even album art.
  11. DJ_AJ

    DJ_AJ NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    71
    Thanks,

    I've downloaded Songbird and have been able to successfully write comments and other information to the Mp3's in question and verified the changes in iTunes. However, I still wish I can still primarily use iTunes to organize, update and write this information to all my files and not have to bounce back and forth between songbird.

    After days of searching the Web for solutions I've noticed many other people experiencing the same problem as me, but have yet to find a solution.

    To add, I've tried batch converting all of my iTunes files into ID3 v2.3 and found most of the files that won't convert or save information to the tags are v2.4.

    Searching for a free ID3 tag editor that will batch convert these back to ID3 v2.3 to see if this will unlock the files. I'm not sure if songbird can do this for me or not as there dosn't seem to be a convert ID3 option.
  12. as22

    as22 NI Product Owner

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    203
    no problem AJ. At least when you go back into iTunes8 you see the changes? It is soooo hit or miss with my iTunes8 that it is not usable at this time. I have both v2.3 and v2.4 tunes and iTunes is giving me problems with both. I have read a bunch of threads as well with people having the same issue but no replies for a fix from Apple. So at the moment I use Songbird for all my editing and hopefully when Apple gets iTunes ironed out, I can go back and use it. The thing I miss most about iTunes is the fact that it keeps my music automatically organized. :( If I change anything it also changes the folder names for where my files are located. I miss that a lot!
  13. DJ_AJ

    DJ_AJ NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    71
    I miss this feature too... BADLY! For the last week all I'm trying to do here is sort my entire 3000 song library in iTunes like I used to be able to do on my old Powerbook G4 setup... by Genre, sub-Genre, Favorites, and Comments ect... so I can set up and manage my files using iTunes "Smart Playlists" for use in Traktor. Check out this awesome article by Ean Golden on iTunes Power Tips! Very cool!

    http://www.djtechtools.com/2008/12/05/itunes-power-tips/#more-946

    Until I can find a way to "unlock" and edit these Mp3 files I'm stuck in perpetual limbo! And I'm already dealing with having to re-tag all of my beat grids and cues over again in Traktor Pro after making the leap from Traktor 2.6.

    Man, everything was working fine on my old Powerbook/T2.6 setup before it died and I was forced to upgrade to my current Macbook set-up. I was able to organize and manage all my tracks in iTunes and I was happy and confident running T2.6 live.... After 3 months of toiling over so many issues including this one, I'm about to sell my Macbook and Traktor Pro JUST so I can go out and by a used 1.67Ghz Powerbook G4 to run Tiger and T2.6 again and get back to gigging saving me months worth of work and set-up.

    All ranting and winning aside... so far, the only other way I can think of to temporarily by-pass this issue other than using Songbird is by right clicking and using the "Create Mp3 version" option in iTunes which then creates a new version that is editable. However,,, I question possibly loosing the original sound quality even when converting an existing 320kb file to another 320kb file in iTunes. I'd like to retain my original encoding. PLUS all my songs range from 192kb to 320kb and I'm not sure what happens when converting a 192kb file to a 320kb file. ?

    Looking at this issue over and over again, I wondered if these files seem "locked" simply because they were ripped and edited using a previous version of iTunes on my old System and OS and can't be written over after importing them to a newer OS and version of iTunes. Or maybe,, iTunes is behaving this way on purpose to dissuade users from sharing their libraries from one system to another? I don't know. What I DO know is that even after I went through the trouble of uninstalling and reverting to previous iTunes 7+ versions to see if these file would be editable, I'm still experiencing this issue.

    Someone PLEASE tell me there is a simple way to solve this issue and get me back on track happily using iTunes and Traktor together.
  14. as22

    as22 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    203
    I wouldnt make additional copies AJ thats just silly! I wish I knew of a way to help ya out but there isn't any that I could find at this time. I mean maybe you will find some luck in changing all your v2.4 files to v2.3 but that might not work also...as I posted above. If you still want to try then you can try MP3 Rage.
  15. DJ_AJ

    DJ_AJ NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    71
    I'm settling with using Songbird for my Meta-data entries right now, then bouncing back to iTunes. Things are going slow but relatively well. Not sure what I did exactly but I have somehow "lost" over 300 tracks since messing around with my playlists. These only appear to be missing in Songbird and Traktor Pro... probably something silly I did, I'll let you know.

    FYI! Ean Golden from djtechtools has just posted "Part 2" from last weeks post entitled "iTunes Power Tips", where he addresses my question in regards to this issue.

    Check it out here to see if it's of any help to any of you who are also experiencing this problem:

    http://www.djtechtools.com/2008/12/19/itunes-power-tips-pt-2/#more-1005
  16. as22

    as22 NI Product Owner

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    203
    thanks AJ.....hopefully this iTunes issue will be settled soon?

    I am going to take a back seat to futzing around with my tracks and iTunes at the moment. I have a longer workflow at the moment but it is running smoothly for me right now.
  17. Darrell Osborne

    Darrell Osborne New Member

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    9
    I use Media Rage for every imported/ripped track also and have had no problems. Change the tag to 2.3 and erasing V1 tags entirely, definitely the way to go.

    Here's my issue though: I've downloaded the demo version of Traktor to play around with before making the decision to switch from SSL, and everytime I analyze the my tracks with Traktor it changes the tag to 2.4. Why? Can't this be turned off, switched, something....
  18. chris_in_london

    chris_in_london Forum Member

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    358
    unfortunately, it seems the only way to 'fix' stuck tracks is to convert the id3 tags to 'none' (unfortunately you'll lose ALL the tag/artwork data), then change to 2.3 (or 2.4 if you are feeling adventurous!). artwork and changes will then stick.

    i had all the same troubles as you after importing my collection to TP. luckily i had a back-up, so i just wrote the backed up 'itunes music' folder over the damaged one, which fixed everything.

    once you've fixed your collection, use doug's 'embed artwork' script and make a back-up regularly!

    (i'm now making my 'itunes music' folder read-only before launching TP using this applecript that i wrote. i switch back to read/write after i quit TP. i'll wait until these ID3 tagging bugs are resolved before i let traktor mess with my itunes again!)
  19. DJ_AJ

    DJ_AJ NI Product Owner

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    71
    UPDATE: Despite all of the suggestions to remedy this problem, iTunes still won't write ID3 Tags to many of my files... still stuck having to deal with the headache of flipping between songbird and iTunes for song management... over 1000 songs to go.

    DJ-ing used to be fun... now between iTunes and TPro, I feel more like a data entry clerk.
  20. chris_in_london

    chris_in_london Forum Member

    Messages:
    358
    just to be sure:

    close itunes, traktor and songbird

    right-click your 'itunes music' folder

    change permissions to read-write

    do the 'apply to enclosed items' thing from the dropdown

    open itunes

    select 'stuck' tracks in collection

    convert id3 tags to 'none'

    convert id3 tags to '2.3'

    see if art/tags will now stick (don't use any other app other than itunes to apply tags/artwork).


    if this doesn't work, check these tips on doug's scriipts site about multiple collection files etc, which might also be problem.

    or maybe media rage could sort it out.

    (before all this traktor pro collection BS, i had about 100 'stuck' tracks from about a year back, when an itunes update caused a similar problem. i've since fixed all the of them via the above method)
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