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Traktor VST plugin

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by coszmin, Mar 14, 2009.

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  1. coszmin

    coszmin Forum Member

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    I'm sure it's been requested before, It's so obvious. I wish I could enhance my sets with other NI products, without having to use Ableton for DJ-ing.
  2. Chris Rimby

    Chris Rimby NI Product Owner

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    Amen brother.

    Although if it affects stability at all I wouldn't be interested.
  3. coszmin

    coszmin Forum Member

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    From what I see, lots of things can go wrong when you work with VSTs. I find however that through repeated usage, I can get a very clear understanding on how to avoid all bugs.

    Most of the time, the thing that causes problems, is lack of processing power. I'm SURE you can crash any VST enabled container, with Reaktor5 if you really wanted to :). So probably with tweaks everyone can try stuff out and find their best combo, as long as the option is available.
  4. Chris Rimby

    Chris Rimby NI Product Owner

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    Also, they could use it as another way to sell their own products, as they could "approve" Native Instruments VST plugins for use with Traktor.
  5. coszmin

    coszmin Forum Member

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    yepp, form that perspective as a traktor user, i was trying to make up my mind between two sets of instruments, without even being aware of what Native instruments had, because they also don't seem to have an "environment sequencer" like Reason or Ableton. The first logical step from dj-ing towards production ( without traktor supporting VST's ) is looking at one of those sequencers, not VST's. VST's you get after you get over your learning curve with the sequencer

    It was only after the shop here suggested I get Komplete, that I realised what I was just about to miss on :)

    Anyways, now that I think about it, the Traktor VST could work both ways. Traktor supporting VST's and allowing routing of channels through them. This would allow us to properly customize our sets using presets, a feature that I really miss with the limited photocamera thingie for Traktor effects.

    Then TRaktor VST plugin would allow us to keep on using Ableton as a live sequencer, and use a real DJ Tool inside it, so that geeky quantization won't need to be done for each song in part. Once again opening possibilities to all sorts of personalized FX.
  6. Chris Rimby

    Chris Rimby NI Product Owner

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    Yea man. At any rate I think (hope!) that Traktor is done being rewritten and will now just focus on developing innovating ideas like these.
  7. BentoSan

    BentoSan Forum Member

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    NI needs to make their own production program that intergrates their wonderful plugins, Reason, Traktor and Reaktor all into the same program - i think id cream my dacks on the spot if i heard NI say they were bringing out something like that.
  8. J.R.

    J.R. NI Product Owner

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    +1 for traktor as a vst or rewire support, I would like to see a way to sync it sample accurate to ableton.
  9. BentoSan

    BentoSan Forum Member

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    The problem with rewire support is that you couldnt use timecode vinyl like that because theres no way of getting an audio stream into a rewire client. Rewire clients will only send audio and are not capable of recieving audio from any outside sources(like a soundcard or rom the host itself).
  10. trance alba

    trance alba Forum Member

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  11. TENMEN_DubstepDJ

    TENMEN_DubstepDJ NI Product Owner

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    You're right, I don't understand why NI hasn't brought out their own DAW yet, but to follow your lead, the inside of my pants would look like a plasterers radio if that happened :)

    Filthy terminology I know, but I am a Dubstep DJ after all!
    ---
    Rewire will send/receive MIDI as well, so all it would take is some way of converting Control Vinyl TC to MIDI Clock data, which is very possible, it's been happening for years in the Audio Post-Production for Film and TV fields, especially for scoring. It's possible to convert SMPTE to MIDI no problem at all, in fact if you've ever heard SMPTE it's not far off from Traktor TC, although it's a little more defined to listen to (bi-polar signal, from what I remember from University it's a sequence of 2 frequencies which alternate between each other at 200hz and 400hz, each pulse of each frequency represents a 1 or 0 to create the timecode map).

    Yes, I am geeky enough to sit listening to Timecode haha!

    Also, surely if you set Traktor to be the MIDI Clock Master (if it were to become Rewire friendly), and then select one of the decks as the Master within Traktor, then the conversion of Vinyl Timecode to MIDI wouldn't be an issue as Traktor is already doing it for you...?
  12. trance alba

    trance alba Forum Member

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    Seriously, there's no point in giving traktor VST support for the above reason.

    Quoting myself from the other thread:

    Most VSTs or VSTi's create noticeable latency, with varying amounts in each persons setup. You wont notice it so much when using them in your sequencer eg cubase because they have the ability to recognise latency durations and send audio/midi down that path slightly early so that the processed signal appears to have no delay.

    Hows that gonna work when you are always making changes to a playing track?

    Unlike a sequencer, traktor cannot expect an uninterrupted audio signal from start to finish, hence any latency your system inherantly has will stick out like a sore thumb.

    example - you press play and the track doesnt start playing until the VST has had time to process and return the signal, so the cue button will be of less (if any) use, or you stop your track and the processed audio keeps sounding, your waveforms wont line up with whats being played, your actions using timecoded vinyl/CDs will have far more latency than they already do, need I go on?

    For this reason you can probably safely assume NI will never introduce VST support and if they do, they'll make it clear that any problems due to latency will be your own fault.

    Yes, traktor has it's own FX without any latency, so why cant external apps right?

    Well I believe Traktor (T3 anyway...) does something similar to sequencers, at least when using some pitch bending algorithms. You can see the waveform moving faster and slower as you adjust the pitchbend, the difference is this latency control is native, a typical external/VST pitchbending app would incur god knows what results.
  13. J.R.

    J.R. NI Product Owner

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    trance alba, your assumptions are wrong (no offence :) )
    traktor HAS latency like every other audio program. the latency in traktor, like in every other daw, is related to the audio buffer size from your audio interface and vst-support would not change that.
  14. trance alba

    trance alba Forum Member

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    You misunderstand...

    Every system has latency, due to harware I/O converters and drivers, VST support would incur latency IN ADDITION to that latency, regardless of buffer size and hardware.
    There is a difference between routing audio and processing audio.
    Any signal processing takes time, routing audio between applications (like VST extension .dlls that PROCESS audio) will inevitably create additional latency in an audio program like traktor that understandably shys away from it and could render it useless as a relatively latency free app...system dependant of course...:confused:
  15. ekwipt

    ekwipt NI Product Owner

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  16. badibeat

    badibeat NI Product Owner

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    +++, ever waiting for this...
  17. coszmin

    coszmin Forum Member

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    first of all i may have not been clear enough.
    what i'm asking for is a way to combine VST's with Traktor. That does not necesarrily mean that Traktor should be a VST. May be nice if you could add VST's to it.

    It's a bit ironic that to take advantage of the best software native instruments makes, in a live setting, you SHOULD NOT use traktor.
  18. tmolina703

    tmolina703 Forum Member

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    +1

    using traktor pro effects as a vst would pwn
  19. trance alba

    trance alba Forum Member

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    written before..........
    So it would seem!

    If its any consolation, I knew exactly what you meant... :D
  20. agentc

    agentc Forum Member

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    Well, I'd rather see traktor itself as a VST plugin with multiple outs for each deck, so it could be integrated in Ableton Live or any other sequencer with ease. Energy-XT for example is a small sequencer also available as VST plugin...

    I think stability should not be that much of an issue this way, since Traktor is already a pretty stable product, and Ableton Live for example also is. It would rather be problematic if Traktor loaded all sort of 3rd party VSTs (which are probably not bug-free and may cause your host to crash)...
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