10 years of Maschine 5 years of bulls**it

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by plopseaw, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,300
    Right and wrong.
    Nobody suggested pulling people off ;)

    There is a marketing and development budget. Perhaps more money should be spent on development and less on marketing.

    I don't have access to the budget but I suspect 100 Euros is spent on dev, and 100 billion Euros on marketing (must be true because I offer no facts).
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2019
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  2. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    964
    Most of these are common-sense stuff, and things you would expect to be able to do. Hardly DAW-like, just expanding upon the existing workflow, nothing revolutionary, just quality-of-life workflow improvements that would save so much time, especially append/merge, and split. Then again, copying and pasting automation would be a real boon as well.
     
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  3. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    Coool ..but how could you forget creating an ability to actually have usable automation that hadn't been malnourished since the ninties and had instead growded up all big and strong .. and....USABLE!!!!!!!!! :D
     
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  4. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    286
    Sure, I agree with all of those, because they’re all improvements that build on what Maschine already does. I don’t understand the winky. Did I suggest they should never improve anything about the software?
     
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  5. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    286
    Budget is almost never the limiting factor in building a dev team, except for small startups maybe. For most companies the problem is a combination of the fact that there’s a very limited supply of good engineering talent, and the increased complexity and difficulty of managing a dev team as it grows in number. I’ve experienced both of these first-hand at my current job as my dev team has grown from less than 10 to more than 30 over the past few years. When we were a small group, each of us was aware of what everyone else was doing. Now we’ve split into three subgroups, because all of us can’t fit in the same room for meetings, and we only know the high level details of what the other groups are up to (which is a particular problem for me, because I have to make sure any new UI the other teams come up with isn’t terrible and matches the rest of the UI, and that’s not a strong point of most engineers).

    I won’t bore you with all the challenges of growing a dev team, but suffice it to say you can’t just throw money at this problem. In the classic book on this subject — The Mythical Man-Month — Fred Brooks coined the well-known rule “adding manpower to a late software project makes it later”.

    I laughed at “pulling people off” though. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  6. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    As a developer who has worked on major projects I cannot disagree more. If you are a dev you've clearly been quite lucky with who you have worked for. I've worked for multiple software companies where sales and marketing are the rock stars and dev is condemned to a cupboard somewhere. If anybody has seen the "IT crowd" on TV you may get what I'm talking about. It's all down to company culture.
     
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  7. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    These two do actually have something in common........management .......often one of the most misappropriate appellations ever to hit paper. The rise and rise of a group of sub species that feel they can co-ordinate and inspire others by knowing absolutely nothing about whatever it is they are working (sic) on isn't the most helpful of 'evolutions'. See also ...'politician' :D
     
  8. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    286
    Fair enough. Let’s just say that even if a company is willing and able to spend money building a great developer team, and also has the sense to let the developers build the best product they can (without the meddling from marketing and upper management that you’re probably all too familiar with…and yes, I’ve had to deal with that too), their efforts are still gated by the short supply of truly capable engineers and the problems faced when a team grows in size. I have no insight into whether NI management is making good decisions in that regard, but either way, this is not something you can solve just by deciding to spend more money. I agree that the whole point is moot if they aren’t devoting enough resources to it, but from the outside it’s impossible to say whether that’s the case.
     
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  9. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    288
    Sadly I have also experienced the very same. Sales and marketing can do no wrong and it’s always developments fault when features that take weeks to plan and implement are not turned out in minutes. There has and always will be a disconnect between these two, maybe because one simply wants to make the sale while the other is concerned about putting out a quality feature while ensuring all other issues that may arise are accounted for and neither fully understand each other. Till something breaks..
     
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  10. plopseaw

    plopseaw NI Product Owner

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    102
    And this!

    Has anything really changed? Anything been updated beyond a few minor things? Where is vst3 support? Where is a scalable GUI or any new features? Where are the things which were shown in the "next update"?

    A little noise from NI for a marketing campaign and then nothing, back to business as usual ;)
     
  11. ShelLuser

    ShelLuser NI Product Owner

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    387
    So yeah... I'm the new kid on the block, recently started using Maschine myself, so I'm pretty sure most of you know more about its history than I do. Basically I owned the Mk1 for a few days or so and returned it because I was quite disappointed with the overall hardware quality, having a few broken rotaries also didn't really help..

    Anyway, despite my inexperience I still wanted to comment on this thread because honestly.. I think there's another underlying problem here which hasn't been addressed yet as far as I can see: tools blaming their tools.

    See, this is the fun of using multiple products and also participating in their communities; it allows you to form opinions which stretch out further than one single aspect. And guess what? You see these kinds of threads all over the place. "Why isn't product X more like product Y?" and I think it clearly showcases a growing issue where users seem to lack the ability to pick the right tool for the job at hand while also getting the most out of that tool, flaws and all, instead of overly relying on "other" or "more" stuff.

    When I started within this synth world I had picked up on Ableton 8 and Reason 4 and guess what? The latter didn't even support audio recording, let alone sampling. It was a self contained box where you had access to a large variety of instruments and effects, but it couldn't do zip with live recordings. Sure, we had samplers and adding audio files into the sequencer wasn't a problem at all. But recording? Forget about it.

    See: Reason 4 was never a real DAW so that feature had lower priority than things like providing solid instruments (for example Reason's Thor is a beast), and guess what? People coped and despite those lacking features still managed to make some highly impressive setups.

    That is your real problem right there I think... Sure, people also commented that audio recording would be a solid improvement for Reason, and I definitely agree that it did, but even without that feature people could still make good music.

    Other example... Maschine has this awesome feature called 'chords mode'; you simply enable it and then you get to play chords by pressing a single pad, it's really quite powerful and versatile. Reason 10 also has a similar feature called the "Scales & Chords" player. And my approx. E 600,- Push 2 controller? Not so much... it provides a specific layout which makes playing chords quite easy (you basically press a triangle like A W D) but a one touch chord function doesn't exist.

    So does this mean that Push is severely lacking because several other major vendors do support this feature?

    Of course not. It simply means that you actually have to put in a little more effort by playing chords yourselves. So, oh dear: you actually have to learn how to play your instrument, heaven forbid! Or in my case: pick the right tool for the job. If I'm in a hurry and need auto chords to help make my work easier I'll simply rely on Reason or Maschine, easy does it.

    Instead of whining about how bad it is that Push doesn't have this feature I simply cope and get my work done.

    Now, don't get me wrong here.. I'm not saying that there isn't any room open left for improvement, most definitely not. Nor do I want to insinuate that all comments about lacking features have no merit to them.

    But I do strongly believe that way too many people tend to blame their tools for often self-inflicted issues and problems. Instead of focusing on "what if" it sometimes also helps to concentrate on the here and now; all the cool things which we can already do and which other platforms don't support "just like that". Controller Editor anyone? Or what about loading in the Absynth 5 VST within the Maschine VST?

    Sure, Maschine isn't perfect. But it has come a long way since version 1 and for me it's still one of the best percussion solutions you can find in the field.
     
  12. telecode101

    telecode101 NI Product Owner

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    437
    I get into the Maschine ecosystem in 2012 with a random purchase of a MK1 Mikro. That piece of hardware has never failed me once since I got it and the Maschine software changed the way I made music. Best money I ever spent in decades.
     
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