1st Down beat always at the end of the loop?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Echelon_, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. malonmano

    malonmano Account Suspended

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    99
    stop talking **** noiserot...

    you should be banned from this forum before many others have been...

    all you do is troll and refuse to accept the truth...
     
  2. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    8,262
    While it is a issue of user's bad timing, it is also a feature many users would appreciate i.e., a short "safety net" before the first beat of the bar that would "catch" any slightly early notes and automatically quantize them to the 1.1 of the Pattern. Ideally, it could be disabled and even the size of the "net" definable by the user.

    I started one of the feature suggestion threads about it quite a while ago. Here: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136206
    That, as you will see, has since been closed, but there's nothing stopping you finding another or starting a new one for this.
     
  3. Ghost_On_Da_Maschine

    Ghost_On_Da_Maschine NI Product Owner

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    1,585
    This plus an auto beat making function would be great.:eek:

    Common people get real.
    It happens because of human error based on the users timing nothing more.

    If you don't want to take the time to improve how is that a bug or NI's fault?

    Are we really this deep on crutches for the so called creation of music?
     
  4. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

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    8,262
    Yes, because quantizing the first downbeat is akin to having a beat automatically made for you... Why do you even use software if you don't want some things to be made easier?

    I hope to GOD you don't use:
    quantization (of any kind)
    note repeat
    automation
    arpeggiators
    chord functions or tricks on any sequencers/workstations/synths
    transposition features of sequencers
    emulations of vintage gear
    virtual routing that would be impossible in the real physical world
    bla bla bla (though I know you use this one)


    As I said, it is human error that causes this and it is not a bug. However, I can play and would say I have pretty good timing, but if I don't nail that first beat and it ends up at the end of actually recorded outside of the Pattern, the next time I return to that Scene, the note event that I thought was on the first beat is missed because it wasn't actually bang on the first beat at all and due to not staring at the screen i.e., main selling point of Maschine, I didn't notice because it sounded so damn close to the first beat when it was looping the first time. Breathe.

    For me, this is a feature I want primarily for live purposes. I don't want to have to worry that the 1 isn't quite on the 1 and nor do I want to have select that note event that's been recorded at the end of the bar (because selecting individual note events with the Maschine controller is one of the most awkward things to do with it). It's a kind of safety net, it's a kind of convenience - it's half the reason we use software.
     
  5. coldmachine

    coldmachine NI Product Owner

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    30
    Where does one go for this "training"?
     
  6. DaSickSage

    DaSickSage New Member

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    This bug/glitch has nothing to do with a persons timing and I'll tell you why...

    the program shouldn't be recording any notes before the down beat because that's where the recording "should" begin...

    How can I put a note in a section of a sequence that doesn't exist?
    This has happened to me a lot on Maschine and when it does, that early note always ends up at the end of the pattern but after the loop point...how is this note being read outside the loop points...I've even stretched out the pattern to see if it is indeed inside the loop points and it's not...

    I've used all kinds of Groove boxes and programs to make tracks and I cant think of one that consistently does anything like this...

    For me its not so big a deal in the big picture of things but I can see how it can be annoying for some perfectionist...JK!
     
  7. jbfuller

    jbfuller NI Product Owner

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    177
    Wrong, it's all about the person. It's not a bug.

    I figured this out on my own and accepted my bad timing, thank goodness for quantize!
     
  8. b-righteous

    b-righteous Moderator Moderator

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    9,677
    Not necessarily bad timing at all. Maschine will place a note at the end of the pattern even if your are 1/64th early. No one should be expected to land the first note square on 1.1.1.. every time. The problem is that during a count in from the beginning, it is placing a note at the end where you don' want it if early to any degree. Some other sequencers will snap the first note to the first beat if it is early by 1/32 or so.

    It's just not expected behavior and a sound feature request since this is found on other sequencers.
     
  9. DaSickSage

    DaSickSage New Member

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    @JBfuller- then explain why the sequencer places the early note at the end of the pattern...and on top of that, outside the loop point, where no info is being read?

    if that doesn't scream glitch to you then, I guess we have 2 different understandings of how recording and sequencers works...

    How is something captured before its actually recording?...

    This is not meant to sound argumentative but I'm curious to know...
     
  10. trux

    trux NI Product Owner

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    753
    you kinda answered your own question. as there is no negative time, and the patterns loop, it will put the notes you entered before 1.1.1 at the end. that IMO is far better than not recording the note at all.
    ---
    dude. really? i dunno why people hate on noiserot and others here. he is quite the power user and has lots of knowledge on maschine - does that offend you?
     
  11. the hamburgler

    the hamburgler Forum Member

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    at this mans dojo

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQuzYO4hp3A"]David"Fingers"Haynes and the "Maschine" - YouTube[/ame]
    ---
    yep noisrot is knowledgeable that's why i said stop lying, look it doesn't help any of us maschine users to act like you don't know how every other sequencer known to man works when you do. this first beat issue isn't even new, every other software sequencer has fixed the issue. we need to stop acting like everything maschine doesn't do that it should do is just an example of some obsolete notion from another platform that doesn't need to get addressed in maschine because maschine is so far into the future we don't need any of those things anymore. In the future we don't need songmodes, or the ability to record a live performance, or the placement of the first down beat etc… these attitudes don't benefit the maschine community in any way.

    come on lets get it together
     
  12. UltimateOutsider

    UltimateOutsider NI Product Owner

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    594
    For the people experiencing this problem- does it happen in standalone, or when using Maschine from a DAW? I ask because I definitely saw this behavior when I was trying to use Maschine from Ableton Live. But I now pretty much only use it in standalone, and haven't had that trouble since.
     
  13. tomatohorse

    tomatohorse New Member

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    13
    I've been having it even in standalone mode.
     
  14. malonmano

    malonmano Account Suspended

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    99
    not at all... he just trolls... and when people find something or offer help he puts them blame onto them, or starts to put down akai for some unknown reason
    ---
    both
     
  15. VinnieTreux

    VinnieTreux NI Product Owner

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    510
    Noiserot is a seasoned member with quite a bit of knowledge, I myself have gotten several tips and help from him.

    @malonmano, you took the conversation to the wrong place when directly attacking noiserot, and I do have to agree with Noise in the stance that this downbeat issue is a function of the user, not the maschine.

    However, I do agree that some sort of feature could be implemented to put the downbeat at 1.1.1 to help other users out.
     
  16. aqirforce2high

    aqirforce2high NI Product Owner

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    231
    i have this problem, always assumed it was down to the fact im crap with timing. not been a huge problem for me tbh, like somone else said just quantize it back to 1.1.
     
  17. FreshFruits

    FreshFruits New Member

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    Nope

    After very unextensive testing I can tell you that this is not user error.

    Even if you record with a count in this happens. This means that Maschine takes the note and moves it to the last beat itself, and it would be easily fixed by modifying it to just move it to 1.1.1 if you hit the pad a moooment too early.
     
  18. jbfuller

    jbfuller NI Product Owner

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    177
    This isn't a bug, it's user error.

    Honestly, I'm astonished that this is being brought up now. I noticed this years ago, did a little testing myself, realized very quickly that it was me, just did my thing and moved the note manually after I saw it get put at the end, and went back to making music.

    DaSickSage,
    I think we're agreeing about what happens, not why. Maschine will record outside that space because it's an overlap, it does it on more than just this example. I've held notes too long that wrap over as well, just the way it works.
     
  19. the hamburgler

    the hamburgler Forum Member

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    717
    omg………………………

    b-righteous please explain to these people what is going on in that very articulate way of yours :) this is why maschine is in the shape that it is today. people think they are entitled to their own facts on this forum and progress is like tug of war.
     
  20. trux

    trux NI Product Owner

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    753
    are you including yourself in that gross generalization, hamburgler?