3 Maschine In Reaper Templates

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by PooFox, Aug 13, 2017.

  1. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    Here are 4 different ways to use Maschine inside Reaper (version 3, updated July 22 '19):

    1) Just One Kit This is the simplest one. A single track with 3 kits, each on its own MIDI channel. No Routing.


    Download



    2) Four Audio Routed Kits + Kick & Snare Tracks This is the way I'm working currently. It's a 5 Track Template.

    Each Kit is audio-routed to a Reaper track, which essentially act as summing buss for the Kit. Mixing the sounds of each Kit is done inside the plugin.

    There is one "Kick Track" with a dedicated receive of Pads 1 & 5 on every Kit, which are typically used for kicks, so you can have your kicks isolated from the other Sounds, for sidechaining or processing, etc. Same for snare, but on pads 2 & 6.

    You can record your patterns and scenes in Maschine and then record your sketch performance of them later as MIDI in Reaper for finer editing, or just start recording into Reaper right away. Best part is that you can loop overdub MIDI items as takes also and use Note Repeat while recording MIDI in Reaper. So, best of both worlds.

    Download


    3) One Audio Routed Kit (16 Audio Tracks, receiving Maschine Sounds)

    Just one kit with each sound routed to its own audio track.

    Download


    4) Maschine Master Controller (Two MIDI Routed Kits and 14 MIDI Tracks)

    This one lets you do all sequencing inside Maschine, using Native Instruments' intended workflow, which is great for sketching out arrangements quickly, but each Sound sends a different MIDI channel from each sound to 16 Reaper tracks to control all your favorite synths from Maschine.

    Download


    Please let me know if anything's not working for you and I will try to help/fix it. There will be more specific info in the Project Notes.


    INSTALLATION
    :

    1. Download your template of choice from the links above and open it in Reaper (or just double click). If you like it, you can save it as a track template for future re-use by selecting all the tracks and right clicking... Yes, they are project files, but they can also be stored as track templates.
    2. (Optionally) Download and import this Cycle Action in the Cycle Action Editor and assign it a convenient shortcut on your keyboard or MIDI controller to view the Maschine GUI at any time (relies on the Maschine track name starting with the word "Maschine").
    3. Enjoy or be disappointed, but give me some feedback, so I can improve the experience for others. :)

    Important: Be sure to disable this +ROUTING option when loading a kit, to preserve the routing I have made in the templates and not load the routing stored in the kit!
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019
    • Like Like x 3
  2. FlammySnake

    FlammySnake New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Haven't used this yet, so I can't vouch for it, but thank you so much. I love reaper. I was just using maschine in standalone and bouncing tracks. This is so much nicer. Well done!
     
  3. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    Thanks! Yea I was doing something similar, trying to route the MIDI from standalone to Reaper, but there's still an awful bug with it and it was just a messy and overly complicated way of working. Let me know how this works out for you. I made the templates from scratch based on my own, but less specific to my personal preferences, so they're not as fully tested as my own templates.
     
  4. Eric B.

    Eric B. New Member

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    22
    For some reason I cannot for the life of me get Maschine working properly in Reaper. Even with these templates, still nothingburger coming out of Maschine. :'(
     
  5. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    Nothingburger? Sounds like a beefy problem...heheh. Yea OK I can try to help you if you want. First give me info:
    1. Is Maschine installed properly and working standalone?
    2. Have you enabled Maschine as a MIDI Device input in Reaper preferences? (keep it disabled in output)
    3. When you enter MIDI mode (shift+f1 on my Mikro), and you also select Maschine (all channels) as a MIDI input on an armed and monitor-enabled track, is there any input indication on the track meter when you hit your pads?
    4. Mac or Windows?

    I can tell you that with a proper setup, these templates worked for me in a fresh, portable install of Reaper so they should for you too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  6. stalyan

    stalyan NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    28
    Hi everyone!

    I've tried your templates but what i'm trying to do is maybe something weird that would give me more creative control:
    - For each group, to be able to record the midi note of each pad sound (or the pads that actually have sounds actually present in a pattern and a scene) of that group on a separate Reaper track (so if group A has 5 sounds, there should be a folder A with 5 tracks in Reaper, if group B has 3 sounds, there should be a folder B with 3 tracks in Reaper).
    - The idea for this is to "simulate" scene loops but with the sounds separated per track, so I can remove add notes, apply separate FX, etc in Reaper.
    - I record rap vocals on my own and until I haven't recorded the voice over some loops i'm not sure what scene could apply better for a certain passage, so the idea is once I have recorded the vocal, be able to get the best MIDI loop within Reaper, plus being able to add new stuff with the keyboard on that loop (i guess recording new notes on Maschine and then arm record that track on Reaper to get the changes would do the trick).

    Until now no success and do not know if it's even possible. I'm just getting acquainted with MIDI concepts so I can better grasp the flow between Reaper and Maschine, but if anyone has an idea let me know and I'll investigate on that line.

    I'm overcomplicating things?

    Thanks in advance!:)
     
  7. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    I tried to do it that way at first as well, but in practice, it's not very helpful to separate the MIDI sounds by track. It gets messy quickly that way. Best thing to do imo (and what I do) is record MIDI output on the Maschine track with each group on a different MIDI channel. This way all your MIDI is in one item, each group on its own channel and it's easy to edit. Also in Reaper you cannot have MIDI notes sent to Maschine and also hear the corresponding sound on that track because of routing feedback, so you end up with a "MIDI send track" and "audio receive track" for each sound. So yes, imo this over-complicates things.

    If you still want to process the sounds separately in Reaper, I believe my second templates is designed that way, with each sound outputting audio to its own track. I'll have to take a look at them again. Been a while. I personally find the fx in Maschine adequate for most things, so I just output the group audio for submix processing.

    Also, I've received no usage feedback on these templates at all, so can you please tell me if they are actually working for you or if they are confusing etc? I would like them to be as useful as possible, but can't do that without some feedback. Thx.
     
  8. stalyan

    stalyan NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    28
    Thanks for your answer and explanations PooFox.

    I committed the mistake of trying to use some of your templates without knowing exactly how MIDI works and is routed with Reaper and how Maschine needs to be set up (even that you provide info on your notes, is not enough for newbies like me).

    I've been checking Youtube videos and reading the Reaper manual in order to understand conceptually how MIDI routings work, which is the most important first step I think.

    Little by little all pieces start falling into place (why I could record but no hear sounds back, etc). So please allow me one week or so to get still more acquainted with Maschine, MIDI and Reaper so I can get back to you with a more objective and informed feedback on your templates.

    And I also want to do this because I see lots of scattered information on how to set up Maschine with Reaper, and there are many small details that can make midi routing work or not, and then it also depends on what's everyone's preferred workflow, so if some newbie finds this post let's provide them with useful and practical information.
     
  9. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    [​IMG]

    I also made this to give an overview of Reaper audio routing, but it works basically the same for MIDI (since track routing always has both an audio and MIDI side and they are both configured in the same way), so maybe that helps.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
  10. stalyan

    stalyan NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    28
    That's superuseful PooFox! It helped me to understand better how to set the sends/receives properly. Now I can record MIDI in Reaper with maschine pads but I hear no sound on playback. I think I need to solve and issue with the MIDI ports first.

    https://www.native-instruments.com/...e-mk3-no-midi-in-out-ports-windows-10.326165/

    When I solve this I want to try your approach 1, I think it will be the one that will suit me best:

     
  11. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    Sure, you're welcome. Well if you don't hear MIDI playing back on the Maschine track, actually that has nothing to do with Reaper MIDI routing, since only the last template uses any MIDI routing. It's more likely Maschine's settings. But in my templates, I've set it so nothing needs to be changed there except for choosing kits (routing is all set up and Maschine settings are what they should be).

    So if you wouldn't mind, please try that template you mentioned and just load any kits you want, then tell me what happens.
    If that still doesn't do anything for you, I will re-check my templates this weekend and try to fix the problem. Also, please run Native Access to ensure your Maschine installation is up to date. Some necessary fixes have been implemented in the last year or so.

    I will comment on your other post there.
     
  12. stalyan

    stalyan NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    28
    Ey PooFox,

    I have all Native Access software up to date excepting Previews 1.1.0 that I need to update. I have the latest firm and drivers.

    Here my report when using your 1) Four Audio Routed Kits and Kick Track template:

    - On Maschine plugin, I understand that for each Group, the Audio Output > Dest is set to Ext. 1, 2, etc, that in Reaper corresponds to each the routing from the 'Maschine MIDI' track to the tracks 'Kit 1', 'Kit 2', etc.

    - Ext. 1 (Maschine) == Receive on channels 1/2 (Reaper routing)
    - Ext. 2 (Maschine) == Receive on channels 3/4 (Reaper routing)


    So up to this point it's okey, I can record audio.

    [​IMG]

    Issue 1: if a load a Group Kit (let's say Maschine 313ktr0 Kit from Browser), the routing is lost. This means that for Kit 1, the sounds 1 and 5 have been reseted to 'Dest > Group' and lost its original value of 'Dest > Ext. 5'(as you explained Ext. 5 corresponds to the 'Kicks' track in Reaper, with a Receive on channels 9/10).

    So easy fixed this, and I can record the kicks on the Kics track.

    [​IMG]

    Now the funny part and where I've got stuck for days with your templates and others that I tried...

    If I look at the routing of Maschine MIDI track in Reaper, the rest of tracks only receive Audio. MIDI is set to None.

    [​IMG]

    On the Maschine plugin, for each Group, the MIDI > Input is set to Key Mode: Manual, Source: None, and Channel is set to 1, 2 etc (for example, at Group level the setting Channel > 1 applies for ALL the sounds of that Kit 1 group, Channel > 2 for ALL sounds of Kit 2, and so on), etc.
    For each group, the Start Note is set to C3. Through is Inactive.

    [​IMG]


    At sound level, MIDI > Input is set to Default > Source, Channel All, Thru: Active

    Doubts:
    - why at group level Default is set to 'None' and at sound level is set to 'Source'? i guess Sound has higher priority?
    - Why at group level Thru is inactive and at sound level is active?


    Let's continue we are almost at the end....

    At sound level, MIDI > Output is set to Dest. > Host, the Channel is set to 1 (for all sounds of that group, on Kit 2 all sounds are set to 2, etc).

    Issue 2: again, if you load a Group Kit, the routing is lost. Group > Midi > Input resets to Key Mode > Off. At sound level, MIDI > Input doesn't change, so the setting is still Source > Default, Channel: All, and Thru remains active. For MIDI > Output, Dest. > None, and on Channel, each of th 16 sounds of the Group is assigned a different value (i.e Sound 1 = Channel 2, Sound 2 = Channel 2, etc).

    issue or doubt: on the original file, the transpose for each sound increments by 1 (so Sound 1 > Transp. = 0, Sound 2 > Transp. = 1... Sound 16 > Transp. 15). I don't understand why it's like this.

    For recording MIDI on Kit 1 track on Reaper, i set Record Output : MIDI, on routing of the track I change the receive from Maschine MIDI track to MIDI 1 > 1 (note: the Maschine MIDI track has its input to All MIDI Inputs > All).


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    Okey, so I can record notes on MIDI, but I cannot hear any sound during playback, even that the volume meter of the track moves during the playback. So I'm stuck here as I posted on this thread.

    [​IMG]

     
  13. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    1. I guess I forgot to mention there is a setting to preserve routing when loading a kit, which is disabled by default (because it didn't exist until recently). It's the little +ROUTING button at the bottom left of the browser area. You should see it when browsing a kit. Disable it.

    2. As for the differences between the Sounds routing and the Group routing in Maschine...I can't answer those questions. The interaction and overlap between those features never made any sense to me. What I have set up in the templates is the result of trial and error. Those settings just work for me while others did not. Feel free to experiment with them and let me know if you can suss it out.

    3. The sounds are transposed because they are on the same MIDI channel, but separated by note. Maschine gives the option to have each sound on its own MIDI channel or its own note. I prefer the latter, so that my Groups can be separated by channel. This way I can record all MIDI into one MIDI item and simply switch channels in the MIDI Editor to edit different Kits.

    4. I mentioned in your other thread, you cannot create MIDI feedback loops in Reaper (well technically you can, but it's recommended only for advanced users). Do not attempt to send MIDI to another track and then route it back to the same track, or create sends to a folder-child track. Reaper will disable the connections without warning or any visible change. You don't need to do any MIDI routing at all in Reaper. The way around this is to record MIDI output on the maschine track, which will then play back on the same track as the recorded item. It's the most efficient way I've found, as you can seamlessly switch Maschine between native mode (for using note repeat, etc) and MIDI mode, since the track is recording the MIDI as it comes back out of Maschine. You can also record your overdubs as takes this way, which is fantastic and overcomes the big limitation of Maschine (no multiple takes). If you play around with the Maschine Routing settings mentioned above in point 2, you might encounter a feedback loop within Maschine, which will cause you to record many slightly overlapping notes all at nearly the same position as the output gets fed back into the input.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2018
  14. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    Just want to mention again that in a totally default Reaper installation, I can open this first template, load a kit and immediately record MIDI and audio, with absolutely no further configuration. Be sure you are using it as intended: MIDI is recorded only on the Machine track, which sends its audio to other tracks. MIDI will be recorded to the Maschine track whether its in native mode or MIDI mode, just be sure to keep it armed. The whole reason I provide these templates is so that that new users would not have to go through what you are doing right now. ;) Should be plug and play. Thanks for testing and hopefully we can get it as simple as possible.
     
  15. stalyan

    stalyan NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    28
    Ey Poofox, it is working now as I said on the other post, thanks for bearing with me and taking the time to explain it all in a plain manner so I could understand it :)

    What I'd like to investigate now is recording the midi in a separate track for each group instead of only in the main Maschine track, but I let this for tomorrow that is late in this part of the globe ;)

    Thanks again man, I'll go back to your templates and provide feedback as soon as I can.
     
  16. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    Glad it helped and thanks for providing feedback. Can I ask why you need the MIDI separate? I tried it that way at first but still find it far more convenient if everything is in one item, I did assign the numbers on my keyboard to switch the MIDI channel in MIDI Editor, which makes it a very simple affair to edit the beats.

    In any case, if you really want to do it that way you'd need to enable feedback routing in the advanced options, which is not recommended, and might still not work.

    Alternatively, if you won't be using Maschine's sequencer at all and just want all your MIDI in Reaper, separated by channel and kit just make a folder and map the children's MIDI to the appropriate MIDI channel, like this:
    [​IMG]
    No MIDI routing is necessary here either, but take note that these are not the same tracks from my templates, just tracks set for recording MIDI input.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2018
  17. stalyan

    stalyan NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    28
    Good question PooFox. I'm trying to find the best workflow to integrate my hiphop beats and vocals.

    I acquired the Maschine MK3 quite recently so I started using it as standalone. When I do a beat I of course include different instruments and patterns to add more variety. When I'm more or less happy with it, I first bounce one of those patterns - the one I could consider the main one- to audio and record the vocals (a draft, not a final take).

    Of course the vocals have some dynamics -low voice, slow, then louder and faster, etc-, and using the same 2-length pattern is not very "adaptative" and plain boring. At this point, once I have the vocals recorded in Reaper, I'd like to play by combining the different patterns in very specific places of the vocals.

    So I want to combine different patterns at a certain time - let's say drums pat. 1 + keys pat. 3 + bass pat. 5 - from 00:54 secs. to 01:12 Isecs. find it impossible to have only one MDI track where to combine patterns easy and fast. Moreover, as you said, I'd like to overdub the keys, or maybe the bass. If I have all MIDI notes from all instruments there, it's confusing to say the least, specially if I want to edit manually some notes later.

    Once I have all the patterns in different MIDI tracks in the DAW, I can easily erase some notes here and there, maybe add another instrument or sample at a certain time in a different MIDI track... once this is done, it's time to apply some FX to the audio, and i'd also like to add some automation to apply some dynamics (on these 2 latter points I'm very ignorant and I need to learn a lot).

    Ideally, i'd like to keep modifying the patterns in the Maschine hardware while it acts as plugin so I can listen the vocals in Reaper/Cubase, so I have the beat stored in only one place, as all the modifications I do to MIDI in Reaper are not "saved" in the current Maschine project pattern, even both files are "linked"). As Mashcine doesn't have a timeline to add a vocal tracks and edit at very discrete points - it would be asking too much- I want to try the workflow explained above.

    Thanks for the info about how to setup the MIDI channels as childs, I'll try this out and see how it works. I'll let you know.
     
  18. stalyan

    stalyan NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    28
    After I set feedback routing, should I do it in conjunction with the step below?

    The first thing that happens when I drag Kit 1 track to Maschine MIDI track to make it a child of it, is that there's no sound of Kit 1 track anymore. If I move it out of the folder again, the sound can be heard again.

    Also if I try to record, as Maschine MIDI is sending the 1/2 > 1/2 to Kit 1 track and the Record:eek:utput options are set to Record: output (stereo), I think it's normal that it doesn't record MIDI... besides setting "Map Input to Channel" to the corresponding channel (in the case of Kit 1 is Channel 1), should I set 'Record: output (MIDI)' instead?

    [​IMG]


    This time I didn't touch any MIDI routing btw!
     
  19. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    Ok sorry for the confusion. The tracks I made children of were not the tracks from my templates, but simply tracks set to record MIDI in from all channels. I doubt you will be able to send MIDI and receive audio on the same track, but you might if you enable the advanced setting. In my testing it didn't work. It will likely reduce performance and cause other issues even if it does, so yea, it's just for if you don't need the Maschine sequencer and just want to trigger the kits with different MIDI tracks.
     
  20. PooFox

    PooFox NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    118
    Honestly the way I would recommend doing this is to keep all your beats in Maschine until you have enough patterns and scenes for a "skeleton" arrangement. Then record all the MIDI out onto the Maschine track as you perform a scratch performance; changing scenes while you simultaneously record your vocal ideas. Then you can explode the MIDI by channel to new child tracks for further arrangement. The reason I suggest this, is because it's much quicker to find a basic arrangement that has a good flow when you record it as a performance. Arranging only through editing is a much longer process and typically results in a less smooth arrangement. You can even load your synth plugins into Maschine Sounds so those are included in the MIDI performance. The idea is to build enough material for a good start inside Maschine (since it's best at doing arrangements on the fly), then record a live scratch performance, and finally do the the final refinements in Reaper (since it's best for more intensive editing).