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Ableton Live 11 and MPE

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by jkq2010, Nov 10, 2020.

  1. jkq2010

    jkq2010 New Member

    Messages:
    16
    I see Ableton Live 11 is coming in early 2021 with MPE support. WiIl Maschine have MPE support anytime soon?
     
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  2. Reefius

    Reefius NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    636
    Don't count on it, it doesn't even support aftertouch.
     
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  3. awol9000

    awol9000 NI Product Owner

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    1,124
    I wouldn't expect anything anyone has ever requested "soon". Maschine 3? Yeah right. More likely to see Behringers new DAW before that.
     
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  4. djadidai

    djadidai NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    119
    What is MPE?
     
  5. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

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    787
    Dont worry about it if you use Maschine :cool:
     
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  6. skhm

    skhm NI Product Owner

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    413
    The elektron style sequencing improvements look promising. + improved follow action and MPE sypport. Very cool improvements. Subtle but very powerful.

    I don’t think maschine will ever support MPE though. The automation currently can’t even be copy-pasted. Even aftertouch is missing.
    If you’re using something like a seaboard, use Logic and sample it’s output with the Maschine. Either with a virtual cable or, if you have a fast CPU, through a physical audio cable.
     
  7. Walt Collins

    Walt Collins NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    84
    No aftertouch support seems like a large, and apparently intentional, oversight. Several forum users with lots of posts (Reefius awol9000 Goon ) are providing sarcastic/jaded comments reinforcing that we synth users shouldn't get our hopes up, considering NI's past history of neglecting similar issues.

    Things like this make it seem like NI isn't really interested in synth users, and is still mainly focused on the "beat making" community. It's too bad because Maschine+ has so much potential as a standalone synth production platform.

    Personally, I don't consider myself a "beat maker". I consider myself a songwriter and producer of downtempo and ambient. I definitely use synths (and arps) way more than "beats".

    I am still hoping that there are enough new Maschine+ users who feel similarly, and NI might consider shifting their focus to include more love for synths on the Maschine platform, especially some of these long-standing issues like Aftertouch.
     
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  8. skhm

    skhm NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    413
    To implement aftertouch, they need to implement the possibility to copy-paste automation/CC values first. Otherwise aftertouch is pointless.

    On the mk3 and Maschine + this is simple to implement:

    1. SHIFT + SELECT and wheel (turned to the right) selects an area (note data + CC).
    2. Copy selection.
    3. Put playhead to other position.
    4. ”Paste” command replaces the events
    .

    With the smart use of F-buttons, they could easily provide the user with the option to:
    replace or paste
    replace / paste only notes, only CC or both.

    This would be such a useful addition.

    It is a bit of programming for the devs but is perfectly doable without losing/changing any of the current workflow/functionality
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
  9. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    787
    Automation within Maschine isnt great at best, so aftertouch isnt that easy for NI. Part of the reason why I sold my maschine.
     
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  10. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,268
    People are sarcastic because they have been asking for aftertouch (a standard feature) for nearly a decade, naturally, after so much time as a user, you feel like it's a lost cause... A new unaware user has a certain innocence that generally dies after a few years, if you stick around you will lose yours too. :(
    https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/aftertouch.210539/

    The fact the MPE is a lot more niche and arguably less important than aftertouch also helps increase the level of sarcasm in a thread like this.

    Well, Maschine comes from the 4x4 standalone legacy, devices that naturally cater to beats no matter how many non-beats producers use it. I cant imagine a beatmaker that doesn't use synths in 2020, unless they're into 1982 old-school beats or something. This is more of a priority issue than catering to beatmakers VS producers.

    People sometimes point out that Maschine uses the aftertouch data in the backend for functions like velocity control on note repeats and that's the reason we don't have AT but i never saw this confirmed officially.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2020
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  11. JesterMgee

    JesterMgee NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,752
    I didn't think you were suppose to release info from the Beta, even the new 2021 NI tagline is suppose to be kept under wraps.
     
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  12. RajahP

    RajahP NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    94

    It's all over the place.
     
  13. JesterMgee

    JesterMgee NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,752
    I was making a joke about that one line I quoted. Probably had to be there...
     
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  14. jkq2010

    jkq2010 New Member

    Messages:
    16
    Thanks for the replies.I also have grown jaded with the missing features and have gone back to ableton push2 and komplete kontrol which does have aftertouch support. Once this ONE Native reboot comes into fruition I may consider coming back but at the moment the products are too disjointed and dont offer a cohesive experience. I can automate tempo, samples autotimestretch when i change tempo and automate time signatures in LIVE and the fact that Maschine doesnt is a deal breaker for me. It can easily be the best production suite in the world but it aint there yet and I wish NI the best of luck getting there.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Walt Collins

    Walt Collins NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    84
    I've been considering the same. I have a Push 2, and an APC40 Mk2, along with a Komplete Kontrol S61 MK2 and an S49 MK1. They do a fantastic job of controlling Ableton Live and KK (as a VST plugin). I've been trying to get "out of the box", and bought a new Maschine+ to better facilitate live performance, and better portability. But with Maschine pointedly avoiding attempting to compete in the "DAW" market ("DAW" is like a dirty word around here), it leaves a huge "production possibilities" gap for me when I consider my other choices.

    I feel like Maschine+ could potentially compete as a standalone DAW (a.k.a."The Holy Grail"), with hardware-specific advantages, but for some reasons that I don't understand, NI have seemingly crippled it. In my opinion, the M+ hardware was outfitted with inadequate CPU and RAM, and vastly under-utilized graphics capabilities. For the $1400 price tag, I would have thought they would have invested more in the raw power of the hardware, to make it more comparable to running on a PC, and give the Maschine+ more capability to run multiple synths and FX at once. But instead, we've been plagued with draconian CPU limitations on our projects, and it feels like driving an economy car, while compared with a DAW on my PC, which is like driving a sports car.

    Ableton running on the PC is many times more powerful than the M+ standalone. So many more synth possibilities. Ableton Live's internal synths are many and varied, and high quality, plus I can use the entire NI Komplete Ultimate suite, along with all my other synths, including Arturia V-Collection, Applied Acoustics, Omnisphere, Serum, Addictive Drums, Tantra, and more.

    I'm really trying to give Maschine+ a chance here, but its hardware implementation, design approach and apparent development roadmap, not to mention NI's marketing emphasis, make it less of a "DAW" and more of a fancy beatbox. In my opinion, NI should have aimed higher with Maschine+. Much higher. Maybe future firmware, and even hardware revisions will elevate M+ to where it could compete more successfully as an actual DAW. For now I'm left considering if I should send my M+ back and instead focus on getting better with the Push/APC/Ableton workflow.