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Announcing: Maschine+

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Mick @ NI, Sep 8, 2020.

  1. djadidai

    djadidai NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    119
    Ok, so maschine 2 software will update on october 1 when M+ is released. I use High Sierra, meaning I won’t be able to install newest maschine 2 software (currently 2.11.1). So when it updates to 2.11.2 (or 3?) my laptop will be ”stuck” on 2.11.1, meaning I won’t be able to use M+ projects to finish them and polish them on my laptop. Am I right here? Should I cancel my pre-order and get my money back? I can’t afford a new laptop and a M+.
     
  2. Bodhi Beats

    Bodhi Beats NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    96
    I *believe* you are describing this correctly.

    Out of curiosity: Why can you not upgrade to a newer version of MacOS? Does your Mac not support anything beyond High Sierra?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2020
  3. djadidai

    djadidai NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    119
    My macbook pro is early 2011, came with snow leopard. I have switched out the mechanical hard drive to a 1tb ssd and I have switched the RAM to 2 x DDR3 to have a total of 8 gig RAM. Old processor of intel i7 2,0 ghz. High Sierra is the newest OS it lets me upgrade to.

    UPDATE: Just saw that I can download catalina. Anything special I should do before doing it?

    UPDATE 2: Catalina will work on macbook pros from 2012 and forward....They have a list of compatible macs ...

    :'( ...I was looking forward to the M+ like a child waiting for christmas... I don't have the courage to install catalina ...however it seems like I can download it, but it probably won't let me install ..

    UPDATE 3: I clicked 'download' on appstore, but got a sign that my mac is too old ..

    bye bye M+ ...for now ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
  4. Bodhi Beats

    Bodhi Beats NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    96
    Yeah, I don’t think you’ll be able to install it on a 2011 Mac. Seems like you’re stuck on High Sierra with that laptop. Bummer, man. :(
     
  5. djadidai

    djadidai NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    119
    Yeah ...this sux... I could accept transferring projects with a usb-stick to my laptop from M+ if maschine 2 software would update on high sierra .. I could even accept jam not working with M+ ...
     
  6. Trevorhor

    Trevorhor NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    128
    100% agree. Maschine+: “Jam completes me.”


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,268
    There is a very high chance of that happening, I would contact support ASAP in your shoes to get an official clarification and depending on the answer yes, cancel the pre-order.

    There are ways to install Mojave on older Macs but since we are talking about a very expensive device it would be irresponsible of me to recommend that.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Bodhi Beats

    Bodhi Beats NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    96
    Yeah. Unfortunately, with a laptop nearly 10 years old, you’re gonna start running into a lot of software compatibility issues. It sucks, but 10 years is a very long run for a laptop. Apple does a pretty good job with this — 10 years is more than you’d get out of most companies laptops before this starts happening to you. Honestly, you’re probably best to put your money into a new Mac instead of an M+ at this point.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. Trevorhor

    Trevorhor NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    128
    It's mostly writing a driver for the Linux OS. The browser might need to be rethought. Should be do-able.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  10. james vogts

    james vogts NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    102
    That would be great. I’ve got a nice FMR RNP for that.
    That should give me 6 outs like my MPC Live.
    Thanks for the idea.
     
  11. djadidai

    djadidai NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    119
    I checked for Mojave also, but it didn't let me download it either unfortunately.

    Since I've been a mac user for so long, and obviously haven't upgraded so much, I wonder, are the current macbooks as reliable as the older ones? from Jobs-era? ...or should I buy a windows 10 laptop ... ? That would save me LOADS of dough ...but is windows reliable? It wasn't back then ...not as a mac .. I run Traktor 2 on an older macbook (a white one) from late 2010 with snow leopard and s4mk1 with 4 decks, never had an issue =)
     
  12. AmeGarin

    AmeGarin NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    152
    Speaking of jam, and since I don't know how to quote on this forum, I've played a few gigs with mk3 and jam and I can't conceive one without the other. I can't understand how they could let it die. It would be a perfect complement to Maschine + if it really is the same as a maschine mk3. Only with the maschine mk3 in live performances you are limited to changing several patterns at the same time, for example, and you cannot use more than one performamce effect at the same time ... it is a very great pity that they will not continue with her and they will not integrate it with maschine +. This is my main reason not to buy it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. AmeGarin

    AmeGarin NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    152
    I Hope that It's just a Joke!!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,268
    I am not defending NI's choice but there is a huge difference between a dedicated controller that relies on a big screen (OSO - On Screen Overlay) and a generic MIDI controller. It's like comparing a Korg NanoPad to an Mk3.

    Thousands of lines of code, it's not about the file size, they would need to re-write most of all the code since it relies in an OSO. Or port it poorly and have a lot of functionality missing.

    We can duplicate at the press of a button on the MK3/M+ I don't see how it could be any faster or intuitive in that context. I am hoping that there are devs out there who will tinker with the M+...

    It is definitively not. It's a bunch of lua scripts that control the device behavior and communication with the sw.
    If I had a Jam i would certainly try to access the Linux files and add in the scripts to see if I could make it work, but I doubt it, and of course, I wouldn't recommend anyone not experienced to tinker with that stuff.

    Here: http://dosdude1.com/mojave/ Use it at your own risk. I have a Hackintosh, I tinker with stuff all the time, if your not a techy person I wouldn't recommend it.

    Depends, some are, some aren't. I would avoid the butterfly keyboard ones like the devil in your shoes.
    If Windows is a consideration and you want high performance at a very low price you can't go wrong with a Ryzen 7 4800U laptop, Just search it on youtube for proper reviews.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Bodhi Beats

    Bodhi Beats NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    96
    I think the current Macs are pretty great. There was an extended period where MacBook’s had reliable keyboard issues that really sucked, but Apple seems to have fixed that in their most recent models.

    It *is* a weird time to be looking at Macs, though. Apple has announced that they are transitioning their entire Mac line to new ARM-based chips (what they call “Apple Silicon”), away from the current Intel-based Macs. This is, almost certainly, a Very Good Thing™. The ARM chips should be considerably faster and importantly for laptops, they have much better performance-per-watt, which means longer battery lives. The first ARM-based Macs are expected by the end of the year, but Apple has stated that transitioning the entire lineup to ARM could take about two years.

    While ARM chips are good news, it does mean that software developers — such as NI — will have some work to do in getting their software ready for this underlying sea change in how Macs work. Apple Silicon Macs will run all software, even that which hasn’t been updated yet, through an emulation layer. But software running under emulation will be slower than that which has been updated to work natively on ARM chips. This will be a transition, and if you buy one of the first ARM-based Macs, you will likely be running some software in emulation (i.e. slower) for some period of time until software companies have been able to transition their products.

    For someone shopping for a new Mac right now, there are kind of two ways to look at this:

    1. Wait a couple months and buy one of the first ARM-based Macs. You’ll have the cutting edge of technology, with hella fast speeds and great battery life. However, you’ll also probably be frustrated at times that company X hasn’t updated their software to fully take advantage of all that technology yet. Also, you’ll be jumping into an entirely new platform on day one. While I trust Apple to handle this very well, some might rather wait until ARM Macs have been out for a couple years before buying, to see how they hold up and perform in the wild.
    2. Or, you could buy one of the current Macs, effectively getting the last — and most mature — of the previous generation (Intel-based). Apple has committed to supporting these Macs for a long time going forward, so you should be fine on that front. And you can count on the reliability and stability of the mature Intel-based Mac platform. But, you won’t get all the performance benefits of the newer ARM Macs.

    If *you* wanted to buy a Mac this year, I think I would recommend option two for you. Given that you’ve kept your Mac for 10 years while running older software, it seems like you value stability and reliability over the latest and greatest tech.
     
  16. djadidai

    djadidai NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    119
    I want to thank you all for all your help! I have e-mailed the e-store where I pre-ordered it and explained my situation and that I am very sad but have no choice but to cancel my order and get a refund. I just can't see myself exporting wav loops constantly, jumping back and forth from M+ to my laptop and import them to logic. I have to accept this, and accept that my good old partner in crime, macbook pro from early 2011, has an expiration date software-wise. I will now disconnect it, polish it, vacuume it, hug it, and reconnect my JAM, MK 2 controller and traktor audio 10 and perform a sweet live-set through my yamaha hs80ms. Peace and love maschine appreciators and NI community people, obviously contributing with loads of knowledge and great feedback to them. I hope you people are being appreciated! Much love!
     
    • Like Like x 6
  17. Bodhi Beats

    Bodhi Beats NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    96
    It seems to me that the Jam wasn’t a very good seller, despite the people who did buy it seeming to love them. I don’t think NI moving away from Jam has anything to do with it not being a very good product and/or the M+ making it obsolete. I think it just didn’t sell very well, and therefore good business sense dictates moving on.
     
  18. AmeGarin

    AmeGarin NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    152
    Now Jam it's a cult classic!!

    I can understand that if you only buy maschine jam and you don't have maschine mk3 you lose a lot of possibilities of using the software, and at first imho was sold as a machine apart from the mk3.
    They
    should have sold it as a complement, because the two together make the almost perfect combo. I think the sales strategy was wrong ... for my needs, I don't need a mk2 jam, it was just enough for me that the jam worked with maschine + and it would be a great gift if they implemented it for the people who have been faithful for years. I think there is a lot of love in the forums for this piece of hardware and I'm starting to see in the forum that people are sad ... I haven't been with native instruments for many years but I'm starting to learn the lesson ... Too bad I haven't it will work with maschine + ... For live performances it would have been great ...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  19. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    422
    Agree. And also, if the support for Jam had been better, there would be more sales. NI made half step instead of one or more steps. And went different direction. No, wonder, Jam has not attracted masses..... If it had not had propper support from NI....

    And hardwarewise, Jam is not hi-tech device. It is a bunch of microswitches, one rottary and eight touchstripes, few LEDs. No display, no velocity sensitive pads, etc.. And considering it and the price, there had to be pretty good margin.

    I do not know, how difficult it would be to integrate Jam to Maschine+, but I doubt it would need to rewrite thousands lines of code. But I do not know internal workings of Maschine 2 SW. And how well the code was written... If it is not well structured, than it might be quite a work to do. And another aspect is. If, theoreticaly, NI knows there will be something with more or less functionality of Jam, sooner or later, than maybe did not want to invest time and money to porting Jam....

    But still, it might be good idea if they go sort of opensource. Maybe that few people woul be willing to invest time to do the job. Or at least most of it....
     
    • Like Like x 4
  20. Bodhi Beats

    Bodhi Beats NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    96
    Open sourcing the Jam firmware could probably lead to some cool things, but I doubt one of them would be integration with the M+ in terms of the Jam acting like it does with an Mk3. For that, you’d almost certainly need access to the source of the M+’s software layer.