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Change patterns without loss of group focus

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by mrmark, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. mrmark

    mrmark New Member

    Ability to change patterns in Ideas View without changing group focus.

    This is mainly for Jam & KKS-MK2 since at the moment these are the only controllers that can take full advantage of Ideas View from the hardware.
    Especially useful when using 2 controllers so we can pattern can be changed while performing/doing something else in another controller at the same time. This should be a toggleable option.

    I own a Traktor S8, a S61 Keyobard with Komplete ultimate, a Jam, and I have just ordered a Maschine Mk3; its a really powerful and fun setup!

    Here is one feature I would love to have that would make my live performances absolutely awesome (I know plenty of other live musicians have asked for it):

    Please give us a special mode to allow us to change patterns on the Jam (or Maschine) without changing the focus on the Komplete keyboard. For example, when I am playing a Synth on the keyboard, and I choose a different drum backing pattern on the jam in song arrangement mode, I don't want my keyboard to change to play the drum set... I want to keep on playing the melody on the synth (otherwise it is impossible to keep a live performance going; you are forced to make an artificial pause playing the current instrument whilst switching back and forth). I don't want to play the keyboard outside of Maschine (e.g. with Komplete player and some compley midi routing setup), because I want to benefit from the Maschine intergration, the clock and all the rich features inside Maschine.

    This could also be applicable between Jam and Mk3, or Mk3 and Keyboard, or what ever combination. It should be possible and beneficial to make the current instrument focus that is being played on a controller (maschine, jam or keyboard) independent from the last selected pattern.

    I know this must be done in a way, so not as to confuse / affect people who are happy working in the current flow... So this should be an extra feature that needs to be activiated.
    So, here is my suggestion draft 1 (comments, improvements welcome):

    Phase 1 : Simple sticky group selection (please, please consider doing this NI, even if no chance of Phase 2 below).
    A key combo on the jam : such as SHIFT + SELECT and then a group (A-H), to select this group sticky (or move focus if its not already selected). Once activated, this would stop focus from moving from this group should a pattern from another group be started afterwards. All the automation parameter mapping and group sensitive context displays would also remain on this group.

    However, if another group is selected by pressing a group key in the normal way (one key press of A-H) then the group changes in the normal way with focus shift, and any sticky group selection is lost. This would have the advantage that anybody selecting this by accident would get out of the special sticky mode naturally.

    Phase 2 : controller specific group selection (nice to have some time)
    Phase 1 would already be an awesome and simple improvement, but to make it super powerful and flexible:
    It should be possible and beneficial to make the current instrument focus that is being played on a controller (maschine, jam or keyboard) independent from the last selected pattern and group on another controller.
    Each controller needs to have its own additional independent sticky group selection. e.g. SHIFT + ENTER to make currently selected instrument group sticky on the Mk1 Keyboard S.
    The controller focus would survive a group change on another controller, not just a pattern selection change on the Jam / Maschine (as opposed to Phase 1).
    This has implications regarding which group context to display in the main Maschine software and on the MK3 Maschine, MK2 Keyboard, and Studio displays (because multiple groups might be active at same time, and we can only really display one at a time).
    The pragmatic solution would be that all connected Maschine displays (software / controller screens) would just continue to change with the last selected group as they do now, but each controller would also keep its last sticky group selected for instrument play modes (e.g. piano mode on Jam, pads on the Maschine and the entire keyboard for Komplete) until sticky mode is switched off explicitly on that controller with the key combination. This would be a compromise because its possible to have a controller displaying information and parameters unrelated to the instrument... An advantage and a disadvantage. The advantage is that you can tweek background parameters of the focus group whilst performing on the sticky group.. To get over the obvious disadvantage simply press the group button to move the display context back to the sticky group you are currently performing on. Does this make sense?

    Thanks for considering it :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 17, 2018
    • Like Like x 12
  2. mrmark

    mrmark New Member

    D-One, yes, In a nutshell that is it !!! :thumbsup: I was kind of getting carried-away in to the detail of how it might be done, but any solution that NI come-up with will be fine... I imagine "change patterns on Jam without changing group focus" should be the simpler of the two to implement. This would give an amazing support for people who enjoy live jamming (with the aptly named Jam) together with a 2nd separate controller - Komplete-S keyboard and/or a Maschine.
  3. D-One

    D-One Well-Known Member

    The more you write the less likely it is for others to read everything and support your request. I think this is a super valid request so i edited your post to make it simpler and easier to understand. Hope you dont mind. :)

    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
    • Like Like x 3
  4. AmeGarin

    AmeGarin NI Product Owner

    +1000 a must have
  5. Trickle2007

    Trickle2007 NI Product Owner

    Yes please!

  6. muitosabao

    muitosabao NI Product Owner

    Mk3+JAM user here.
    This is an absolute must!

    Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
  7. D-One

    D-One Well-Known Member

  8. affinia

    affinia NI Product Owner

  9. nelsonleeroy

    nelsonleeroy New Member

    Oh Yes please, that would be awesome, to really Jam and make live video while playing keyboard on a group, then switch the patterns on the others...
  10. charlie360x

    charlie360x NI Product Owner

    +1 on this one. Added my two cents here: https://www.native-instruments.com/...t-controller-control-group-sound-lock.324423/
  11. janobermudes@hotmail.com

    janobermudes@hotmail.com New Member

  12. ManoSolo

    ManoSolo New Member

    Yes for me too, definitely !!!
    using a maschine mk3 i'm waiting for this feature to be so i can use mk3 and the KK separately, controling two different sounds at the same time

    I mean, you have two hardwares, good expensive hardwares, from a serious developper, i don't understand why you can't use them properly !! for me, it seems like getting any midi keyboard will just do it then

    the whole kick of this native integrative system would be to play live on two controllers, being able to control different sounds simultaneously...

    strange that it hasn't been done yet...
  13. LotusEleven

    LotusEleven New Member

    Its March 2019, Any word on this feature?
    Its a major problem that makes music making limited.
    I would like to use the ability to perform using two more NI devices whilst each records to pre-assigned separate tracks and groups, with switching to scenes during this flow process.
    I have Machine MK2, Jam and Kontrol S61 mk2
    First attempt to play and perform with all three leads me hear to discover this is not supported by NI yet many users need and vocally make them aware.
    • Like Like x 1
  14. CH7

    CH7 NI Product Owner

    What's the point ... its not like there's any evidence of NI giving a dam what their users wants. These things will happen in their own time, or not.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Jens Porath

    Jens Porath NI Product Owner

    exactly! why does this feature requests forum even exist? have they actually done anything users really wanted? i can't think of anything from the top of my head other than finally adding time stretching - almost 10 years after release. wow...
    so many valid requests in here for all these years, like this one, but they never gave two shits. even in centrecode i dont really see much dev feedback. at least not on requests that make sense.
    kinda gave up on maschine as a serious production tool. it could be so much more but they're sitting on their asses doing nothing it seems (jam song mode anyone?). so fed up with NI...
  16. MtwoJ

    MtwoJ New Member

    +1 Essential feature
  17. Mi.Alpha

    Mi.Alpha NI Product Owner

  18. LePhi

    LePhi New Member

    I´m ready to sell my Maschine Jam and KK S49 or throw them out of the window, didn´t decide yet.

    I waited nearly 3 years now after purchasing the Jam to get this focus thing fixed and for some useful updates.
    But absolutely nothing serious happened since I got the Jam and there are no signs, that NI´s development gets aimed towards this direction or that they´re even aware of this problem.
    It´s a shame, this hardware combination had an enormous potential to revolutionize the use of loops and virtual instruments on stage, making Ableton Live and all these messy workarounds obsolete.

    I´m utterly frustrated and kompletely done with NI hardware now.

    There are some nice solutions to host Plug-Ins on stage like Mainstage, GigPerformer, Cantabile and some others, but they all lack proper support of tempo-synced clips and scenes as backing tracks and/or easy hardware integration..
    Strange add-ons like ClyphX for Ableton Live or Playtime for Reaper had to appear to fulfill the needs of performers..
    GigPerformer for example has been developed by musicians themselves, because the big companies just don´t understand (or listen to) performing musicians anymore and blow up their products with silly stuff noone really needs or has demanded.
    Most of us don´t want to have s.th. like an online soundstore integrated into the software, we don´t want to be asked to save, when we want to load the next song, we don´t want SHIFT + X commands for essential actions on stage like tap tempo, we don´t want to click on small icons or even use the trackpad/mouse of our laptops on stage at all.
    We want to load our gig project (setlist or whatever), switch fast through the songs, control the plug-ins used in the current song like we want to, split/layer/combine sounds directly from the hardware, be able to react fast and adapt the performance to the audience like adjusting tempo, change the order of the setlist, loop the verse and so on.
    It´s like a bad joke that still no company offers an easy reliable ressource-friendly solution for these essential needs of so many keyboarders and bands.

    Arturia just surprised me with their Concerts and "go on stage" functions featured by AnalogLab 4 and usable from the KeyLab MK II hardware.
    That´s a step into the right direction.
    It´s far from being perfect or sufficient as you can only use the Arturia plug-ins for now, but who knows...
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Bito

    Bito New Member

  20. SupaMega+

    SupaMega+ New Member

    + 1 Billion

    So close to perfect for live performance and this is the main thing letting the system down :(