Configure S4 MK2 to work with DJay Pro 2 on iPad

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR DJ (for iPhone and iPad)' started by Nathan Sharfi, Dec 23, 2016.

  1. Nathan Sharfi

    Nathan Sharfi New Member

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    I know there are maps to make the S4 MK2 work on the Djay Pro on a Mac. I do not have a Mac but I use my iPad.

    Note: I had mentioned Djay Pro 2 (typo). There is Djay Pro, or Djay 2. I care more about Djay Pro which also does video and 4 tracks (fyi) along with Spotify.

    I love my S4 and I even love Traktor on the iPad. However, Djay Pro (on Mac) and Djay Pro (on iPad) lets you use Spotify accounts when you mix. It is built into the software. This matters because I want to do some very small social gigs (small events) where I need music I don't own. In this case I am mixing mellow folk music (it is really cool). I can create a Spotify playlist and do it really easy and fast (on the fly even), and just play it out of Spotify but I lose all fun. I would rather use Djay Pro and mix it. It would be awesome of Traktor had a music service and one day it might, but now it does not. It is actually all legal and Djay Pro is all set up to work with Spotify.

    First of all, these are not professional gigs so I don't want this discussion to be about music rights and things like that, that is not my question. Please help me stay focused on my real questions. Mapping my S4 MK2. Is this even possible (on the iPad). It probably is on a Mac, but I don't own an Mac, and also (FYI) Djay Pro is not available on PCs. (Weird - maybe, maybe not, but still - weird. Anyways.)

    My question, is if I put my S4 MK2 in MIDI mode and I map it with software on my PC for the Djay Pro on the Mac, will it also work on the iPad for Djay Pro. Following me?

    The S4 MK2 is already compatible with the iPad and again, it is awesome on Traktor. But will Djay Pro "on the iPad" see the device? I know the S4 MK2 also has a MIDI mode. I have never used it AND, for the record, before I spend a lot of time on this, I am wondering if anyone knows anything, has any success with this, tried, or anything like that. I have a lot on my plate right now and cannot just give up a whole day or weekend yet to experiment with this.

    My next question is, when you map the device, are you doing it on the computer for the software, or are you mapping it in the device (does it save it). So maybe (different question, just and example) if I mapped my S4 MK2 for Serato, will it also work on my friend's computer, or does he have to map it again on his computer. The bigger question (I don't know the answer) is does save "inside" the device or are you just mapping the driver "on the computer".

    My next question is (on the same line of thought - assuming the last question is possible), if I can remap the S4 MK2 "internally" while in MIDI mode (if that is even what is happening), do I have to "un-map" it to work again with Traktor on iPad. I mean, if I want to use it with one app, and then switch to another, will Traktor recognize it again. Or do I have to put it back (un-map it).

    Basically, I am wondering if it is as easy as switching form MIDI mode band back and it remembers the settings in MIDI after they are saved. I really have no idea, again, I have never put my S4 MK2 in MIDI mode. Also, if you are following any of this, I don't know if I even understand what I is really happening.

    Thank you for considering helping me on this project. In the meantime I am looking at all my options.

    FYI, I have never mapped my S4 yet, but I am an advanced computer programmer, and also a system builder. So I understand computers and software. I just am new to the whole mapping MIDI and the limitations of it. Even more important, I am not sure I understand if you remap an S4 MK2 to use in different "apps" (not software) on an iPad.

    I have spent hours looking online and researching this, and so far, there is nothing about this online. Nobody is asking these questions yet, and if they are, they are not posting anything. So even if it can be done, or cannot be done, I don't know anything yet. Again, due to my schedule, I am hoping even if there are people out there that don't know the answer, maybe they have enough experience, they can figure it out much faster than me (on how to do it) and let me know what they know or figure out.

    Nathan
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
  2. Dysfunk DJ

    Dysfunk DJ NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    165
    Simple answer. You can't on iPad.
     
  3. Kalo

    Kalo Active Member

    Messages:
    687
    Hi Nathan,

    you are in the wrong forum here ! .. forum covers only issues to Traktor DJ (TDJ on iOS)
    If you have questions to NI S4, see here: https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/forums/kontrol-s2-kontrol-s4.280/
    if you have questions to DJay see there forum: http://community.algoriddim.com/algoriddim/topics

    But let me answer directly anyhow to help:
    • Dysfunk DJ is completly right, it is impossible to use S4mk2 on iPad iOS

    More details:
    • The S4mk2 (as all other NI controller i know) do NOT offer a native midi mode, also not the mk2 model!. Quite often a misunderstanding, background: the fact that midi mode is possible on PC or Mac is because the installed Windows/OX driver convert the HID handshake into a virtual midi stream. Buth the driver in PC/Mac is doing this ! .. the controller itself does never follow midi protocoll. And as iOS cannot suppprt any driver you can not use these Controller in iOS.
    • Add one comment more to make picture complete: iOS does support the soundcard of some Controller, e.g. Audio 2, and maybe the S4mk2 soundcard to, but as audiodevice, mapping of any knobs via midi is impossible for sure.
    • even if using real 'Pro' solutions on iOS, like DJ Player Pro (which supports ALL midi class 1 controller .. and not only the few which are supported from Djay), you will not be able to map the S4mk2 knobs
    • usage of S4mk2 on iOS is possible with NI TDJ only, for sure, unfortunatly
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2016
  4. Dysfunk DJ

    Dysfunk DJ NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    165
    What he said
     
  5. Nathan Sharfi

    Nathan Sharfi New Member

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    8
    Okay, I appreciate it. i was looking for the right place to post.

    I appreciate your help.

    I had some follow up questions posted, I think they were answered, but I am still wondering if I should re-post this in the right place.

    I don't think there is a way to change the category once it posted. I did notice, you cannot change the title.

    I am starting to wonder if any "DJ Controllers" out there are really MIDI now.

    I have some pads and things that can be programmed for other MIDI apps on the iPad and I now am even more confused on what is happening. But I did follow that you said this device in not actually MIDI even though you can switch it to MIDI on a computer. It is sorta of a trick that that iPad cannot communicate because it is done via the software on the computer and the iPad does not have a way to do that.

    I am also starting to see some third part apps out there that let you have other apps talk to each other. I am not totally understanding how that works either. I don't also know the correct place to post that in conjunction with this device and this software.

    I am trying to be respectful to the forum also.

    I do want to emphasis that I do love using my s4 MK2 on the iPad with Traktor. It is really awesome and (usually) stable. I have run it to problems ith the cable, updates and things. I also have since learned after you update your tracks, let it do it thing then restart the software before you go live (especially if you need to search files). It will crash (at least it used to).

    Anyways, for the time being, I bought a 2nd controller so I can use the Spotify plugin. But I have not given up on trying to understand the limitations and non-limitations (what you CAN do) with MIDI on the iPad as far as DJing goes.

    Nathan
     
  6. Nathan Sharfi

    Nathan Sharfi New Member

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    8
    This is off topic, but on the same stream.

    This will work with Traktor, using your iPad as a MIDI controller.
    https://www.kvasha.us/guide/midi-dj/

    Very interesting. Not something I want to invest in, but I am still trying to understand the MIDI part of it.

    And looking the other way, I have MIDI keyboards and PADS and they will work on some MIDI software on the iPad.

    I really makes me wonder, why .. and when, some of the companies that build the devices, will ever really make them MIDI and when companies like NI will allow MIDI devices to work totally with them.

    I do understand from a business point of view, why you would limit your software and the device to work best with their "own" software (and vice versa hardware).

    I also understand, on the computer, you can do a lot of different things with MIDI even with Traktor. I use the computer sometimes too, but mostly right now, I really like the benefits of where tablets are pushing computers. Tablets dont have the problems that my PCs have (Macs do this better) ... which the operating system hogging resources. There are fixes and things, but I really like how when you run a app on a tablet, it loads fast, boots fast, and even if crashes, it starts back up in seconds. I have had a lot of problems with my computer despite all the memory, adding new SSDs, deleting software I don't need.

    Let me throw in, I do a lot with my computer. I am programmer. and I am not RICH. Everything costs money, and at the end of the day, my iPad is really amazing.

    Sorry, I have about 10 different conversations going now.

    Back to the MIDI and Tractor. I put a link above. Any comments are appreciated. i am trying to stay on topic of this forum.

    If you also have other suggestion on different topics I can start and where I should post them, that is appreciate too.
    I am always learning, but I also have about 100 projects going on at the same time.

    Nathan
     
  7. Nathan Sharfi

    Nathan Sharfi New Member

    Messages:
    8
    One more post,

    I still am probably off topic, but I found this article online.

    http://djbooth.net/dj-equipment/entry/cross-dj-for-ipad-midi-controller-support

    I know NI does make MIDI devices.

    ---

    Just a little rant (goes all over the place)

    This does go on to show that Traktor may someday do this too. Just have not yet. NI (in my opinion) is a very "ahead of the game" company. When Traktor for the iPad came it, it was really ahead of anything else out there. Cross DJ and others have some great apps too (I am see a bunch now). Pioneer is doing some great things too now. The new iPad Djay Pro software I mentioned has been out for a few months now and I have noticed the more research I do, that all the hate and bashing on Djay Pro is still about the old software. There is very little reviews out there specifically noting features on the new software. Most comments are about the old software of what they thing the new software does or does not do. It is obvious that very few people actually realize how far iDay has come.

    I expect a lot to still happen with the iPad, Traktor, Serato, Pioneer, ReLoop (a new big player), Roland (wow on the their new stuff), Djay Pro (they are not messing around anymore), Cross DJ (still not good enough I think). I do also want to add in, there are a lot imitators. Only a few are really stepping it up. I checked out the Stanton site recently a lot, nice new projects, the the site sucks, (oh my it was bad), it says a lot about how far behind they are. I saw some good reviews and went the site and had to think the guy was nuts who reviewed the new software they had. Again, hardware, they have some good stuff. Numark, is probably smart to stay out of the software, they have some good controllers too.

    Traktor DJ on the iPad is really a tight program.
    And the NI hardware, it is not perfect, but ti is solid.

    If they did anything wrong, still too much plastic. I love a sold metal controller. Heavy sucks sometimes, but it makes me feel like it professional. The pads rock, but they look cheap. But they work great.

    Anyways. I said I was going to rant. Sorry (sorta).

    Nathan

    One more link to end the rant.

    I am guessing (knowing NI) they are not far from thinking about linking their other apps and devices with stuff like this. This is where things are headed and NI has always been very ahead in what they do. I still remember getting my first Traktor Audio 2 3-4 years ago. It was an amazing device at the time (nothing like it).

    Anyways, Ableton Link is doing something new. It can send Cross DJ Pro’s audio to other compatible apps and allow you connect them to each other (I assume via MIDI type signals). Basically, it allows you to combine several music apps simultaneously.

    http://www.mixvibes.com/remixlive-ios-android
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
  8. Kalo

    Kalo Active Member

    Messages:
    687
    to finalize thread, also wondering what you expect in TDJ forum, if you have any iisues with TDJ.. let us know ;)

    - If you want to use the S4mk2 on iPad, you must use TDJ (btw: I also have both, love this combination too)
    - if you are interested to use all your other 'real' (non-NI) midi device in DJ'ing on iPad, then you could check "DJ Player Pro" ! (search in store ;))

    in both cases ... good luck ! ... have fun :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
  9. GenErik

    GenErik Active Member

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    226
    And for the record, all non-NI DJ controllers are MIDI compatible and can control all non-NI (i.e. TDJ) DJ apps. NI and TDJ is a closed ecosystem on iOS.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Nathan Sharfi

    Nathan Sharfi New Member

    Messages:
    8
    thank you for the info "NI and TDJ is a closed ecosystem on iOS." I did not know that. I will have to learn what that means, but I get t he basic idea now.