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Crossfader ON the Z2 calibration?

Discussion in 'KONTROL Z2' started by jessrox78, Nov 3, 2012.

  1. a1beats

    a1beats Forum Member

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    Sorry, i had a buyer today and sold my Z2.. i'll stick with my audio 8 w/ rane 62, X1 & F1 for now & i'll support/buy the next gen of z2 after NI/innofader fix the Xfader issues and bugs (just way to many to deal with right out the box). thanks you for your all help.
     
  2. Elemental J

    Elemental J New Member

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    4
    I've gotten myself a brand new Z2 and I can say that this one for sure has no issues... Down to 1.5mm (as I had expected) and sounds great, even with my sloppy crabs...(ooh that sounds bad.) I also have to add that while i'd of loved to have a smoother experience.. Everyone here has been awesome!
    NI has a great team, community, and in my case a great retailer and distributor...

    I'm glad I waited until i got an assured "fresh" Z2....
    Now I no longer regret making the jump from a TTM 57.
    Thanks.
    Really thanks.
     
  3. Innofader

    Innofader Forum Member

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    OK just keep us posted we're here to help :)

    Elliot
     
  4. DJ EL-TOPO

    DJ EL-TOPO NI Product Owner

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    Hi, I've noticed that my scratches are so much better and cleaner sounding on my ecler nuo 2.0 with an Innofader installed than they are on the z2. ( even using vinyl with live input) which is strange because they both have the same cut in. It must be because of the overlap thing. Is there any way to get rid of the overlap at all? Thanks.
     
  5. Innofader

    Innofader Forum Member

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    @eltoppo51: The Innofader installed in the Ecler Nuo 2.0 typically has a 0.5mm overlap between the cut-in and cut-out. The mini Innofader on the Z2 should be the same. Before this kind of thing becomes urban legend, I'll ask if you can actually measure the difference between the two.

    Completely getting rid of the overlap results in another issue which is that the sound may cut in and cut out on its own when the fader rests at the cut point.

    Elliot
     
  6. DJ EL-TOPO

    DJ EL-TOPO NI Product Owner

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    Hi, sorry I don't want to cause a myth, I should of thought about that before posting. I'll test out mixers side by side. It is strange though, it's not in my head either, in fact if anything I'm trying my best to convince myself that I'm better on the z2 because its the best mixer I've ever laid hands on. Maybe it's because the sound quality is so crisp and clear, I do hear a kind of harsh attack to the sound when the fader cuts in, not just that it goes from no sound to sound instantly but ( arggh it's hard to explain ) like a pop noise when the fader cuts in but not a pop like you get on old vca faders.

    Who knows.

    I'll test out the overlap.

    Thanks
     
  7. DJ EL-TOPO

    DJ EL-TOPO NI Product Owner

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    Ok I'm going to wait until Monday to do an accurate measurement with some vernier callipers from work but for now I just checked it by eyes and ears and I can confidently say that the z2 has about double the overlap of the nuo 2.0.

    I'll make a video of it on Monday anyway.
     
  8. DJ EL-TOPO

    DJ EL-TOPO NI Product Owner

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    206
    Ok, I think I'm getting closer to finding out why my scratches don't sound as good on the z2... So I set up a the z2 next to a nuo 2.0, I was using vinyl so there wasn't a lap top in sight. I used the exact same records on both set ups and took it turns to do basic but fast stab scratches which wouldn't be effected by any over lap. I figured out that it's the z2 crispy punchy sound that is off putting. I'm really not trying to sound so pedantic but it's like a punchy popping sound with each cut that makes it sound totally different to using the nuo2.0 which just sounds the same as any other analog mixer.

    My only thoughts are its the 24 bit cirrus logic converters.... Who knows? I'm sure I'll get used to it.
     
  9. a1beats

    a1beats Forum Member

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    @eltoppo51, i know the feeling.. i was having a very similar problem.. why i sold my z2 and stuck with my rane 62 and audio 8 (I use both serato and traktor). my scratches sounds identical with the 62, S4 and my old 57 & vestax. i even sometime scratches on a pioneer with innofader and they all make and sound very identical.. i dunno what it is about this Z2 mixer that sounds soo different.. who knows! i'll buy another Z2 cuz i love the features and layout but waiting till they produce a better one.. they always do :)
     
  10. DJ EL-TOPO

    DJ EL-TOPO NI Product Owner

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    @a1beats, it's not good that you had those issues but I'm happy that at least someone understands what I mean. The REALLY strange thing is that I've got my ecler nuo 2.0 running through the aux in on the z2 but the nuo 2.0 still sounds nice and warm even though its going through the cirrus logic processor....or maybe the mic and aux in aren't effected? I don't know enough about mixers internal parts to start guessing. All I know is this mixer is amazing and hopefully my head will get used to how it sounds but at the moment it just doesn't sound right ( when scratching ).

    Maybe a digital to analog converter box would do the trick or am I dreaming?
     
  11. j-kut

    j-kut Forum Member

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    49
    There used to be issues similar to this on older Vestax Mixers when the curve was set to the very right (hardest cut possible) iirc this was an issues between the VCA-circuit and fader´s electrical resistance. Not shuire though if that´s the same here, or even correct at all :lol:
     
  12. DJ EL-TOPO

    DJ EL-TOPO NI Product Owner

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    206
    hmmm maybe thats what it is, I'll try it out tomorrow. Thanks for the info!
     
  13. blackavenger

    blackavenger Forum Member

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    So, Elliot, will you "confirm" that the upfaders can be easily swapped out for the Innofader Pro?

    I've been racking my brains thinking of what I might buy instead of the Z2, all because I just can't stand the idea of stiff upfaders. I want to stay within the Traktor Certified mixers, so was considering the DJM850/900, DN-X1600/1700, or even taking my chances w' a used Zero4 or Evo5. But the truth is, none of those offer what the Z2 does in such a small package.

    So, I'm just gonna' get the Z2, and hope that all of these issues that I've been reading about on the forum get sorted out quickly. Here's the way I see it. If the rumors about NI wanting to assume the role of "Apple of the DJ World" are true, then they MUST get these issues worked out fairly quickly, or the presumed Z4 doesn't stand a chance!

    So I need to make sure that the Innofader Pros "will" simply swap in for the default upfaders. 'Eff it, with how cheap the Z2 can be obtained for, adding another $300 for the best upfaders really isn't that big of a deal.
     
  14. a1beats

    a1beats Forum Member

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    31
    @blackavenger, i believe they fit but the problem is the contour/calibration for the upfaders.. i installed the mini-innofader that i recieved from NI (replacement from original xfade that had a lag) and it works just like a regular stiff fader.. the cut it and out doesnt change. so if ur wanting to scratch with the upfader, it wont make a diifference unless NI updates it with calibration adj in the traktor preference. if im wrong here, elliot can clarify whats really going on with the upfaders or if NI even going to update/add a contour adj for the upfaders.
     
  15. blackavenger

    blackavenger Forum Member

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    I always thought that Innofader Pros had the adjustments on the fader itself. Hence the reason that some shitty mixers w' no contour/curve or tension adjustment at all can be updated with them.

    If I'm wrong, please tell me before I mistakenly spend $300.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO_xnIMBAMA
     
  16. a1beats

    a1beats Forum Member

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    @Blackavenger, true but i would contact Elliot or wait for him to reply.. let us know how it works out :D
     
  17. Innofader

    Innofader Forum Member

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    @blackavenger: Yes just to clarify:

    1) Either the Innofader Pro or Innofader PNP will work as replacements for any fader slot in the Z2 if you want the functionality/feel of these parts. It seems this is the case for you regarding the upfaders. I would recommend the PNP because it's less expensive and easier to install; the advantage of the Pro would be more installation options if you wanted to move the Innos to other mixers.

    2) These are not NI approved solutions so they may affect the warranty.

    3) If you have crossfader or any other issues with the Z2 you consider to be defects, please contact NI customer support to get these resolved. We have worked very closely with NI to get all of the mini Innofader cut-in issues resolved, and all new production is very tightly controlled to ensure these don't happen again.

    Elliot
     
  18. silky gold

    silky gold Forum Member

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    I have an innofader pro for the djm400 I was wonder if that could swap into the z2?
     
  19. f33

    f33 Forum Member

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    25
    so it would make the cut sharper, but only if you weren't using traktor?
     
  20. blackavenger

    blackavenger Forum Member

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    Thank you for the very prompt reply, Elliot.

    That clarifies all my questions regarding the faders for the Z2. Also, thank you for suggesting the PNP, because I was wondering about that myself, and it's good to know that they are compatible as well. At that reduced cost, I might as well get (3) of those, as opposed to just the (2) Pros that I had initially considered.


    As for voiding the warranty, that's a shame. I mean, what mixer never needs it's faders replaced? Take note, N.I., even Apple had to change their draconian warranty restrictions regarding end-user HDD & Ram replacement. Items as simple as crossfaders and/or upfaders don't need a mechanical engineer to replace, and shouldn't affect the warranty as a result. YOU SHOULD CHANGE THIS POLICY! Or at the very least, offer Z2 owners the option to purchase the loose Innofader to put in the upfader slots. I mean, wouldn't that just mean more revenue for you? Isn't it all about making money? Sorry, but I'm not some child that needs my hand held whilst crossing the street, and I certainly don't need my upfaders to have resistance as if I'm incapable of positioning them where they need to be without that resistance!