FORM - first impressions from a builder perspective

Discussion in 'REAKTOR' started by arachnaut, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. arachnaut

    arachnaut NI Product Owner

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    deleted
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
  2. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    First developer named is LaZyfiSh. So it's a construct like him, you know?
    Click on upper left corner 'FORM'.
     
  3. Loopy C

    Loopy C NI Product Owner

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    Hey Jim...so what do you think so far? I can't seem to hear in any of the demos thus far the suggested potential of this approach?

    You know me, I LOVE Reaktor and most all of the NI Reaktor-based instruments they have introduced over the years (not to mention the awesome lazyfish which I read was involved with this) BUT...I am just not hearing anything special??

    Once you 'microloop' a sample it seems most of the inherent 'character' is reduced to a basic periodic timbre, which even when 'motion' is introduced is not catching my ear as something 'new' or 'unique' (in fact I keep getting reminded of my Juno 60 in the various 'bass' audio/video examples I came across lol)

    Have I just not heard the right examples yet? Have you got any cool experiments you think show off the 'real' Form potential??

    Thanks in advance
     
  4. Loopy C

    Loopy C NI Product Owner

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    Thanks Jim ;-)
     
  5. killmaster

    killmaster NI Product Owner

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    I would love to know your thoughts as well. I tried pm'ing you but couldn't figure out how to...
     
  6. Soarer

    Soarer NI Product Owner

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    I just bought it and I must say that I am very very pleased and awed by this marvelous instrument! I make sound design and electronic music and I don't build much so I'll be using it as it is. Yes if you make a tiny loop it will just play that as a waveform but you may as well use a wider range for timbre changes. The OSC FX section allows for quite some changes to the timbre too. It works very well as a synthesizer since you can add the additive engine and flatten the pitch of your sample so that the pitch sticks to the key you play so I have made some cool playable patches from noisy field recordings. With the motion curves is possible to make so many cool rhythmic modulations. The Perform section allows for saving up to 12 presets within a single snapshot.
    Wow, it's only a couple of hours since I got it so I better get back to tweaking it :D
     
  7. killmaster

    killmaster NI Product Owner

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    756
    I feel much the same as you Soarer. Extracting the pitch curve of the sample and the formant manipulation make this a pretty special sound for what I do. So far I've been able to take some really simple and short samples and make something really fascinating sounds that work well with my other tracks, I think due to the constant variation in the resulting waveforms. Overall sounds much more complex and rich than any "wavetable" synths I've tried.
     
  8. Jedinhopy

    Jedinhopy NI Product Owner

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    821
    If FORM is something like the primary Granular Pitchformer.

    Then why does it not support having grains within grains?
     
  9. dcoffin

    dcoffin NI Product Owner

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    1,224
    "…Paule made snapshot banks from the factory presets and you can download them."

    I hope this process and indeed some useful overview if the whole new snap-saving/preset-using (ignoring) setup is available, in the manual or elsewhere?
    It's hard to imagine a more critical issue for everyday use of Reaktor, the UL, and everything else than having complete, no-confusion understanding of storing one's work!
     
  10. Jedinhopy

    Jedinhopy NI Product Owner

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    821
    Break the audio file down into all the slices that make it up. And make those slices have slices within them too. And possibly having audio slices within them too.

    And when you reach into the audio slices.
    You see more audio slices as you zoom in more.
    The audio signal is split into theoretically infinite sound parts. Because those individual audio slices have audio slices within themselves too.
    And then when you zoom into them. You find out that they are composed of audio slices too.

    I would simply call that fractal granular synthesis where there is grains within grains within grains within grains within grains. I could go on forever.

    And having a knob/slider/fader parameter that sets the amount of the (grains within grains) stages.
     
  11. dcoffin

    dcoffin NI Product Owner

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    1,224
    Can't wait to get my hands on Form, but have been surprised myself how in the demos I've so far seen, the main thing emphasized is how easily one can FUBAR the sample, as if that's the most interesting thing about Form or of what to do with samples, rather than the least, most unexceptional part of it, since that's possible with almost all devices that process samples. It seems that there's pretty much always, with every kind and variety of synthesis, sampling or FX processing (AND introducing randomness), a very thin rim of usefulness and the possibility of distinctiveness, compared to the vast, easily slipped into universe of ways to make everything sound the same, F'ed Up Beyond All Recognition, I.e., just next door to creating nothing but noise.

    I say surprised, but it's nothing new; there's endless examples of FUBAR potential being touted as a fabulous, proof-of-worth feature in reviews of audio tools.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
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  12. Jedinhopy

    Jedinhopy NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    821
    The first granular grains should be the largest in time length.

    The grains within them should be smaller in length.


    Edit:
    The first stages of the grains should be big.
    The grains within them should be half the the length.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
  13. dcoffin

    dcoffin NI Product Owner

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    1,224
    THIS is exactly what I've been hoping to find in it, excellent:)
     
  14. Loopy C

    Loopy C NI Product Owner

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    Indeed before I read these posts, I was able to get enough time with the Form demo to realize there was plenty to explore and have purchased it now.

    Soarer said: "The OSC FX section allows for quite some changes to the timbre too. It works very well as a synthesizer since you can add the additive engine and flatten the pitch of your sample so that the pitch sticks to the key you play so I have made some cool playable patches from noisy field recordings. With the motion curves is possible to make so many cool rhythmic modulations."

    kill master said: "I feel much the same as you Soarer. Extracting the pitch curve of the sample and the formant manipulation make this a pretty special sound for what I do. So far I've been able to take some really simple and short samples and make something really fascinating sounds that work well with my other tracks, I think due to the constant variation in the resulting waveforms. Overall sounds much more complex and rich than any "wavetable" synths I've tried."

    Yes I am seeing/hearing that now that I have had some 'hands on'. Jim's private reply helped me identify the questions I needed to answer for myself (good thing as the demo did not work work very well for me and locked me out after one short session!), and thanks to his as always incisive summary and similar interests (and the extremly short demo!), I was able to determine what is being comminicated above...I will certainly find some interesting things to do with this ;-)
     
  15. Soarer

    Soarer NI Product Owner

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    393
    I want to control the playhead position in Form but there's no controller and I can't midi learn the touchstrip. I would have thought it was possible to control it manually.
    What is the best way to do this? I guess I need an event for pressing the mouse button too and I'm a bit baffled by these complex structures... :D
     
  16. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    6,269
    Soarer, you control the vertical pick-up with gate and modify it by using curves etcpp.
     
  17. Soarer

    Soarer NI Product Owner

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    393
    I'm not talking about manipulating it with the build-in motion curves but about manual control, like assigning it to a midi controller.
     
  18. joeking

    joeking NI Product Owner

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    Some mono modes make clicky sounds, filter cutoff decrease to stop some clicks. Some gui tricks, click button/knob and get modulation panel. Depth sliders incredibly small. Still new to me, I don't understand exactly what this motion curve is doing - is it like playing the sample? You vary the time speed of the sample playback head? First bug I found was - in the sample tab, grab the right handle and the playback head seemed to jump outside the 2 handles.
     
  19. Soarer

    Soarer NI Product Owner

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    393
    Thanks for trying this Jim. What if you go further macro levels up, will it not be possible to add it there? Same thing happens if you just add a knob to control it? Maybe the mouse button click has to be there as well?
     
  20. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

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    6,269
    Jim, try this: gui/header/about sw delete the connection from set input to merge