1. Hi everyone,

    Apple just released Logic Pro 10.5 for MacOS 10.15. We found out that Crush Pack, Mod Pack, Replika, and Replika XT will crash.

    Our teams are currently working on a fix, and we hope to have this out to you as soon as we can!

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Host Transport Control doesn't work with Komplete Kontrol MK2 due to NI removing MCU support

Discussion in 'KOMPLETE KONTROL SERIES' started by HammyHavoc, May 20, 2018.

  1. pranaearth

    pranaearth NI Product Owner

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    237
    I use Logic as my main DAW. BUT, I also use several non mainstream DAW as well, so I have to hold off upgrading to the S88MKII until MCU support is added back in. A shame, it's such a lovley beast.
    And I'm no NI apologist, but in their defence, they're not releasing MassiveX now, so it's not half baked. They're releasing it when it's ready.
     
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  2. Tommaso Scalici

    Tommaso Scalici New Member

    Messages:
    9
    I was about to buy a Komplete Kontrol S49 Mk II, planned to use it as the main MIDI controller with Studio One. Luckily, I do lot of research before buying a product and I encountered this thread. I'm surprised this is still an issue. Well, I'm surprised lack of MCU support IS an issue, to begin with. C'mon, we're in 2018. But anyway, I'll not buy the controller if there will not be at least full support for my DAW. Waiting answers from NI guys.
     
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  3. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    1,061
    Ridiculous, isn't it? Hardware is great, workflow is great. Pity about the lack of MCU, that is a complete showstopper. A year on since launch! Unbelievable.
     
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  4. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

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    1,858
    Right on, to ALL the potential MK2 buyers, Say it with your pockets! Let NI know this is unacceptable. Don't be like us early adopters who fell for their marketing strategy and bought it without realizing till it was too late that they left out MCU support.
    I can't believe NI aren't commenting or letting their customers know whats going on with this.

    They just don't care.
     
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  5. Lab Rat

    Lab Rat NI Product Owner

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    299
    I was hoping, with all the new products just released, we would be getting full integration for more DAWs. Instead, we get the A series budget keyboard.
     
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  6. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    1,061
    Seconding this. It's starting to look a lot like an industry-politics related decision to not include MCU in order to push specific DAWs and perhaps stop the advance of newer DAWs taking business away from the go-to DAWs of the past couple decades.
     
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  7. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

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    320
    It's going backwards in regard to technology. The reason I also deduce is crippling the user to restrict choice of application. It's sad, since at the end of the day, that pattern of behavior alienates users.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  8. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,963
    Agreed, but I do think because of that it is still in NI's best interests to implement MCU, and they have stated as such, it's just frustrating for me and everyone that they have taken so long over it and not issued any updates which just fuels doubts that it's ever going to happen. I still hope that is not the case and it's more the usual NI tendency towards keeping shtum about what's planned than a change of plans over this.
     
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  9. Xyenz Fyxion

    Xyenz Fyxion NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    320
    Yeah, otherwise we truly invested the money and over a year into this for nothing. We could have all kept our (or bought) MK1 keyboards. I love these added screens - I produce a lot in Maschine. But, I don't like the new lights as much as the old ones. I liked the Transport controls, and the new buttons aren't as important as saving that time turning around to hit play/record.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  10. trusampler

    trusampler NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,858
    Wow! Somehow I believe this.
     
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  11. Lab Rat

    Lab Rat NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    299
    Support more DAWs, sell more MK2's. Doesn't this make sense. I'm still using an MK1 in Studio One. I'd like to buy an MK2, but then I lose features if I buy the "upgraded" MK2. There's a lot of support for the MK2 on the Presonus site, and I'm sure there's users of other unsupported DAWs that would like to see full integration support. https://answers.presonus.com/20921/...on-for-komplete-kontrol-mk2?show=20921#q20921
     
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  12. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,061
    You see, when this is pointed out, I can't help but feel that it's industry politics afoot. MCU really isn't that difficult to implement. It isn't something that takes a year, that's for sure. We want what NI has got to offer, that much is clear, any for-profit enterprise would surely see the sense in sinking a few k into getting this sorted to sell a few tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars in products to people who want MCU and are holding out for it.

    They had $59m in investment not that long ago, I'm sure it would make sense to investors to do this. A year down the line, I'm sure competitors are readying their response to NI's offerings to keep pace.
     
  13. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,963
    It isn't if you have controls that use standard midi cc - but KK doesn't use midi cc for transport etc, just for the knobs and buttons (which can be mapped already). So they need to change how it works, that isn't so easy.

    I don't think it's politics - it does make sense that they should want to support more DAWs but they chose to go for a protocol that enabled tighter integration into some DAWS with much more detailed 2 way communication, but at the same time have painted themselves into a corner by not building in backwards compatibility to standard midi - whether to save money or just because they didn't appreciate how much people who have wanted it I'm not sure, I think they have slowly realised it was a mistake but are not sure yet what to do to fix it.
     
  14. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

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    1,061
    To my knowledge, the transport still uses the MIDI Bome driver-- just like the Maschine MK3-- which has Host Transport Control.
     
  15. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

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    5,963
    No it uses OSC, that's what enables the deeper integration but it needs a host that can support it too

    That doesn't mean it's impossible, it is technically possible to translate OSC to midi - there are third party apps like Osculator that do that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  16. HammyHavoc

    HammyHavoc NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,061
    Is the Maschine MK3 also using OSC for the transport?
     
  17. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,963
    No idea, don't have it. I just know KK does because if you open up the controller info in Logic (and also in Bitwig) they both use the OSC interface, not standard midi and since the Bitwig hack is emulating what happens in Live it follows Live is doing the same. Also if the transport controls were producing standard midi anyone could map them to transport even without MCU support, and they would show up in midi monitors.
     
  18. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,963
    Does the Maschine MkIII do that 'deep integration' thing?
     
  19. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,963
    Never mind looked it up - it seems it does



    that's interesting because it is clearly using Mackie protocol for the transport stuff at least (not sure about the 2 way mixer visualization though, surely that isn't possible just using midi?)

    Compare that to how it looks with KK in Logic, where you can see it is using OSC

    [​IMG]

    Maybe they have managed to combine the two in the newer hardware, that is promising perhaps, if they could do something like that for KK (if the hardware allows for that)
     
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  20. Nabumetheus

    Nabumetheus NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    23
    Just wanted to chime in and say that I will be holding my $1000 back from NI's S88MK2 until they add MCU support.
     
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