If there is a Stand Alone Maschine in the making, speak up NI.

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Coorec, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,544
    Everyone says they want a stand alone unit but i seriously doubt all those people are willing to pay (around) 2k for it...
    Remember it means a Maschine Studio + a powerful enough pc inside of it + a decent audio interface + possibly a dedicated OS ...

    I honestly don't get the point of a stand alone Old-MPC inspired unit in 2017.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Mystic38

    Mystic38 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,279
    Companies move on, and products get discontinued, then not supported, and at that time you either replicate a standalone Maschine with a PC/MAC, and audio interface, or you throw it away..

    So, for equality, as a contrary view i would say that i have learned that i don't get the point of being one OS update away from having a boat anchor..

    The reality is that if someone wants a standalone Maschine enough, then it is pretty straightforward to create that now, with off the shelf gear, and make a custom case. irritating things like filenaming etc can be avoided with a preset list of blank projects, or have a BT mouse & keyboard.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,544
    Agreed. I mean someone did this in 2014 imagine what you can do now.
    I hope theres no stand alone anytime soon, i hope NI focuses on the software features that were promised long ago, i hope they don't release some new version of Jam, god listen to my prayers please!

    This pinned comment by NI leads me to speculate that something is going to drop soon tho, hopefully alongside Maschine 3.0

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  4. J-Fly

    J-Fly NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    782
    One of the main selling points for the MK1 Maschine was the fact that it wasn't standalone which meant access to a large library of instruments and samples with no limitations. Now because one manufacturer insist on going backwards everyone want to follow suit. That doesn't make much sense to me. Just buy a MPC X/Live if that's what you want.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,544
    Agree, lets move forward not backwards.
    Also you're technically buying a computer twice. If the point is portability i would say a laptop is a pretty portable thing.
     
  6. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,256
    Why should there be limitations on accessing instruments and samples nowdays? If you run out of disk space you should still be able to access an external hard drive, perhaps even upgrade the internal hard drive. If you can't do that then they are missing a trick.

    Nowadays standalone devices are just devices with in built computers.
     
  7. theinvis

    theinvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,068
    ffs stand alone devices have always been computers, with the akai release they will be no different on the surface just have the ability to install an ssd drive, connect external drives and thumb drives , plus more ram.., etc...

    instruments that aren't tethered to anything will always have value. If you see value in a portable laptop +controller but don't see value in a portable controller with a laptop inside it then I don't know what to tell ya:D
     
  8. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,544
    You have a point but its not all about space. If this thing can't run VSTs if not connected to a computer how can we use all the great VST libraries out there? Like KK10 and many others... Thats what he meant. Of course you can connect it to a PC for VST but then again if you do then you defeat the purpose of it being stand alone.
    Any stand alone was always a device with a computer inside of it.


    In reality people will buy this stand alone and always have it in their home studio right next to the pc, thats just hilarious to me.

    Well.. If you mean value money wise then most things lose value over time unless its fully analog. An MPC2000 is not worth now what it did 5 years ago and its really hard to sell wile selling an older controller and a laptop separately might be easier. If its value in creative terms .. well... a pc is fully upgradable separately from the controller só you might not need to buy a whole new 2K stand alone thing
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  9. theinvis

    theinvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,068
    actually the whole line of akai mpcs hold their value more than laptops ever have. There are still people buying mpc 2000's but there is no-one still buying any laptop that came out on the same day as the 2000. Actually not just mpcs, but any stand alone beatmachines by roland , korg, even ensoniq and Yamaha etc... they've all held their value better than any laptop Mac or pc.

    look at it like this, a laptop's popularity is based on it's portability, and a stand alone instrument is even more portable than a laptop
     
  10. encdee

    encdee Forum Member

    Messages:
    55
    Yeah, I don't think there is any actually downside to an NI standalone device. It would be great.

    Only downside is the cost of R&D, the likely high price tag, and then the potential difficulty in getting enough people to buy it fast enough to get the money back and stay competitive with Akai at what ever speed they put products out.

    From a user stand point I can't think of anything that's bad. But from a company standpoint I'm guessing they have to make all kinds of projections and try to assess the profitability...

    That being said, I really hope they make one. I think it would be great, and I think people would but it. You make a good point about standalones retaining value. Even if they only ever made one, people would still be buying it years later..

    Sent from my Studio XL 2 using Tapatalk
     
  11. theinvis

    theinvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,068
    ^^ do to the dedicated os and integration.. it's a different paradigm than a laptop + controller. I think those are the missing variables in the discussion.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. terrybritton

    terrybritton NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    582
    I think Roland is showing the way of the future (at least one way) with their Roland plug-out synths and the RolandCloud.com subscription model (which still has a free "one month" tria).

    Terry
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  13. Coorec

    Coorec NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    328
    Agreed, lets go forward.

    Forward means mobile devices. Laptop, audiointerface and controller is yesterday.
     
  14. Coorec

    Coorec NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    328
    The point is: one mobile piece of kit, running on batteries if needed be.

    Back in the studio connect to the PC again and all is as ever. I call that forward thinking.

    I wouldnt mind a price of 2k for a stand alone maschine. Would be the most expensive groovebox out there tho..
     
  15. Mr36

    Mr36 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    7,806
    And some would say all-in-one boxes are the day before yesterday. In any case, there's plenty of room for both.

    We all don't have to agree and/or persuade each other that one is better than the other, y'know. :p


    I agree about plug-outs, but absolutely wholeheartedly disagree about the subscription model (especially that one that is expensive when they start charging).

    I've thought for a while that NI's first foray into so-called standalone hardware would be something of a plug-out ilk, whether a synth-focused Massive/Absynth/Reaktor box or keyboard, a Maschine groovebox type thing, or even a Guitar Rig pedalboard or effects box with the ability to store/use x presets/projects (with some resource limitations).
     
  16. Coorec

    Coorec NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    328
    What both? Both is yesterday .. I want neither of that.

    The point is to support all workflows with one product. Standalone, hybrid and ITB.

    I for one use them all equally. I want a product to support them equally too. I am a long term Maschine user, so i want it to be Maschine and not Akai or anything else i have to lern anew.
     
  17. terrybritton

    terrybritton NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    582
    Well, as Coorec said, many would not mind paying 2K for such a device. The RolandCloud subscription allows you to load oodles of their synths into your single hardware box for (at the normal $29.99/mo price, not the intro $19.99 price) still would net you a ton of synths for $360/year. That is a lot less than 2K (*though the initial investment on hardware does set you back $400-1600 for the units, like the System 1 and System 8, though System 8 already has many of these plugins in it). Plus, they work in your computer host as VST's etc.

    They just opened it up to subscriptions at the $19.95/mo. early-bird pricing. If you are quick at churning stuff out, you could get a lot of use out of the one-month free trial!

    Terry
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2017
  18. schrage musik

    schrage musik NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,258
    ...and, of course, Kore.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    6,544
    For the record i wasn't saying you were wrong, its just a perspective thing. They do retain more value, especially when old and production has stopped, for some the value keeps going up each year especially analog stuff that might became trendy, which is the case for the 808 for example, i get that and won't try to dispute it, its a fact.

    All this is nice and dandy, but i don't think its gonna work like that for stuff like the new MPC X/Live, mainly because its super digital and people that buy vintage look for "analog warmth" and a specific characteristic sound only possible with those machines, i doubt hybrids will ever fall in that category.

    The MPC2000 is from 1997 that gives it vintage status, of course no one in their right mind will buy a 1997 laptop, but also no one will keep using one for 20 years to have one to sell. I have always sold my 3/4 year old Macs for a value very close to what i bought them from new, and theres quite a demand for that, so i sell them fast, cant really say the same for Windows PC's tho. My MPC2500 took me months to sell.

    Again... Perspective, subjectivity.
    A laptop might be with you more often, its a lot easier to carry around and being able to make music with it even when not having the controller is a plus for me. Think of it as a high end big ass DSLR+Big lens vs your Phone camera in a way...
    Lets say i go on a 1 week vacation, i certainly won't pack a chunky and heavy MPC, it would need a flight case, would take tons of allowed weight on the flight, it would have me worried as hell something could happen to my precious 2000$ piece gear, etc... But i'll for sure have my laptop with me and if i feel like making some music i can, also watch some porn in case im in a country that doesn't like handsome guys like me :D
     
  20. theinvis

    theinvis NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,068
    No worries friend, we're just talking beatmachines :)

    the thing is even though it took you months to sell your 2500, they still hold more value than laptops, now of course you'd be more comfortable taking your laptop on a weeks vacation over the 2500, but the mpc live is entirely different, and like you say it's subjective but if I went on vacay for a week I'd definitely take the mpc live and an iPhone over my laptop and my mpc 2500... I don't even keep a laptop on me I leave that at the house, but I keep an iPad on me all the time. the unique thing about the mpc live is that it's a combination of maschine, traktor, ableton, a loop pedal, an ipad, and an mpc..... 5 pounds or more, with a 5 hour battery life, and built to be beat on.... there hasn't ever Been anything like this and it's quite portable. You'll hear allot of people talking about how they will be using it with their computers but I didn't even purchase mine for that.... I don't plan on using it with the computer and it's 1199 is cheap for what it's capable of.

    That's another thing we are glossing over in the discussion, the capability contained there within... for example you used to have a 2500... well... that 2500 has better midi implementation than your maschine and the new mpc live that we are talking about, that's why I would never sell mine cause I need what it offers and unfortunately the new mpc didn't include all of it's capabilities but my point is that 'going forward' is not as simple as going foward when you're using a machine that can't do things that decades old machines can do, and this is why these machines hold their value..
    if you enjoy using ableton as I do, and you enjoy using an mpc , it's only now that it became possible to use both paradigms together in a portable unit, I'm not talking about the 16pad paradigm, ableton has that in drum racks, I'm talking about the mpc sequencer combined with ableton style clip triggering and performance features all on the fly and integrated together. It's worth a try and if it doesn't work like it should then all of that will be moot and I will be sending it back until they make it right, no difference in that regard than all the issues you see here on the forum with maschine only I kept maschine cause I thought they would do it justice long ago... but I agree everything is subjective, you got rid of your 2500 and time traveled to the future to greet a beat machine that won't even let you automate the tempo... I did the same thing, I just kept my 2500 in the process.