Komplete 11 Upgrade - Wait for Black Friday?

Discussion in 'KONTAKT' started by tripecac, Aug 1, 2016.

  1. Login

    Login New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Does anyone know if crossgrades from reaktor (5) are gone for good?

    I wrote Ni during the recent sale about this and the response wasn't clear but it seemed crossgrades were temporaly issabled. But now K11 is out and no crossgrade option.
     
  2. BIF

    BIF NI Product Owner

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    1,070
    I agree with others that "Ultimate" should mean "Ultimate." Ultimate means "last". Less than that might qualify as "penultimate," but that is not "ultimate". Penultimate means "next to last". NI should have set a price for it and way too many folks here are giving NI an easy pass.
     
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  3. jimzepellin

    jimzepellin NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    54
    Well I think NI have got you there. Komplete is spelt with a K so that's meaningless and doesn't mean it's complete so in the same vein Ultimate doesn't have to mean what you think it means. Ultimate needs a reference and if you pick an arbitrary reference then you can get Ultimate to fit whatever agenda you want. This is a total waste of digital paper and time. Focus on something important like getting your next hit out or getting some cool sounds on the go. Whining and crying to your Mummy about your itchy backside is pathetic.
    So Sayeth the Zep
     
  4. tripecac

    tripecac Forum Member

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    77
    NI's own "definition" of Ultimate was this:

    By NI's own words, Ultimate means (or meant) "entire range". I wouldn't call that interpretation "arbitrary".

    Customers who bought Ultimate in the past had every reason to believe the next version of Ultimate would continue to adhere to NI's "entire range" marketing claim. They were counting on Komplete 11 Ultimate's upgrade price giving them the complete line again.

    Unfortunately, Komplete 11 Ultimate does NOT contain the entire range of Komplete Instruments and Effects, and is instead compromised in that it contains lesser, limited substitutions for some of the products rather than the full products themselves. This fact is likely to disappoint many NI customers. Of course, some customers might not notice the limitations until too late, and that is why this could be considered "bait and switch".

    NOTE:

    Personally, I don't buy the Ultimate versions, so the content of the Ultimate package doesn't affect me directly.

    What does concern me is a shift in marketing/sales strategy which implies that NI can no longer afford to sell a truly "Ultimate" package at reasonable prices. This implies that the company is financially struggling. Whether they are or not is irrelevant. The cheapening of Ultimate paints a picture of a company desperate for a quick cash injection (and then another smaller one when people realize they still need to buy the full versions of some of the products). For me, this raises alarm bells: the beginning of the end. The alarmist reasoning is: Why invest in NI if they are going to go bust in a couple years (or months) and not be able to support their products?
     
  5. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    15,075
    You need not concern or be overly fatalist. NI is doing VERY fine financially.
     
  6. Mike Çonnelly

    Mike Çonnelly NI Product Owner

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    158
    Don't forget that the orchestral ones were created in partnership with SoundIron. I would expect Ultimate to include everything NI made themselves but anything done with a third party seems like it's case by case.
     
  7. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    15,075
    And strings with AudioBro.

    This is not the first time - NI did partnerships before with Heavyocity, Scarbee, Galaxy, Dynamedion, etc. yet those are all a part of Komplete. This was a different kind of deal with partnered companies, obviously.
     
  8. tripecac

    tripecac Forum Member

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    77
    I wasn't familiar with who developed which instrument, and what percentages external developers get for sales of their instruments. I suppose that muddies the waters a bit for NI, but I wish they were able to "shield" us from the mud.

    Currently, the Symphony instruments are marketed as Komplete instruments, just like the Scarbee instruments:
    https://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/

    To the average, not-super-informed consumer (me), it seems like the full Symphony instruments should have the same purchasability as Scarbee products. By that I mean they should be subject to the same sales and bundling. It seems odd that they are not, and that seems to be evidence that NI's deal with SoundIron is less favorable than the one NI made with Scarbee, etc.

    Perhaps, if NI is going to be doing more "unfavorable" outsourcing of development in the future, NI should create a new category of instruments for ones which are not included in Ultimate (and perhaps not included in some sales)? Maybe the new category could be called "Semi-Komplete" or "Inkomplete"?

    Ugh, I'm not a wordsmith (but at least I don't outsource the writing of my posts!)

    Seriously, though, if NI is becoming increasingly reliant on developmental outsourcing, to the point where they start making deals less and less favorable to themselves, does that mean NI is having creative/staffing problems?

    Why couldn't NI have had the negotiating muscle to get the same deal out of SoundIron that it got out of Scarbee, etc.? And if SoundIron was just being stubborn and insisted on an "unfavorable" offer, then why couldn't NI have simply said NO and then created own their set of orchestral instruments inspired by (but not ripping off) the Symphony series? Or, as Microsoft used to do in the "good old days", why didn't NI simply buy SoundIron?

    The existence of this "unfavorable" deal with SoundIron makes it seem like NI are losing their power and/or optimism, and are being forced to favor short-term cash flow over long term creative dominance.

    Does anyone else see this as worrisome? Or am I being overly alarmist?
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2016
  9. Mike Çonnelly

    Mike Çonnelly NI Product Owner

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    158
    Getting a bit alarmist there.

    They probably just shouldn't have those libraries on the Komplete page if they're not included in the bundle.
     
  10. ChangoM

    ChangoM New Member

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    19
    Regardless of how NI has chosen to package/market the Symphony Series, the string, brass, and woodwind libraries are awesome for my needs scoring documentaries. Everyone has to make assessments based on their own requirements, preferences and finances, but the crossgrade price for me for these outstanding libraries was a no-brainer. I won't be upgrading from K10U to K11U (why would I?), but I have made allowances in next year's production budget for the possibility of solo strings and percussion libraries for this series. Take my money, please, NI.Worth every penny, IMO.
     
  11. Kalamata Kid

    Kalamata Kid NI Product Owner

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    40
    Many were disappointed that Kontakt 6 was missing from K11.
    It may be that if sales of K11 are slow we just may see a big Back Friday sale?

    I am just about convinced to get K11 from my current K8 so it is just a matter of finding the best
    deal between now and years end.
     
  12. BIF

    BIF NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,070
    Well, I am planning to upgrade, with the thinking that this may be the last time. They want $400 for me to upgrade, which is a lot of money for not including orchestral sounds.
    Well, just how are WE to know that, EvilDragon? I mean, it's not a publically traded company, so NI's books are not public. I don't know if they're doing fine or not. I have a lot of money tied up in NI software and hardware, so for my own planning purposes, I'd like to know how you came to know this information.
     
  13. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    15,075
    They're constantly hiring instead of laying people off, that's usually the sign of a healthy company.
     
  14. BIF

    BIF NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,070
    But even NI's partnerships have only resulted in "lite" versions of their software being included in Komplete. Heavyocity is the first to come to mind, and I think Sonic Couture is another. Now I'm not complaining because Komplete has introduced me to many great instruments over the years. By now I've gone out and bought a bunch of these other "full featured" Komplete instruments from other makers, just to get the "full" versions. They've been worth the prices I've paid, but at some point I have to ask myself why do I need to keep upgrading my Komplete when I already own half of those titles in their full-featured versions from these other makers?

    Furthermore, NI took so long coming out with a full orchestral package that I decided to just go with Hollywood orchestra instruments. NI lost that sale because I jumped before NI's even came out.

    So even if NI is doing well financially, I wonder just how successful one can be long-term when one is late to the party, doesn't give you the whole product anyway, and gives only rare opportunities for a price-discount to upgrade to the other vendor's "full" product. After Komplete 11, I will certainly be asking myself if I really need K12 or if it's just time for me to move on.

    Edit: Oh yeah, and I see no new Guitar Rig being trumpeted for K11. Did I just miss it?

    I see, and I'll grant you that. But hiring is only one barometer. I know many companies that were hiring right up until the day they put the signs on the door. In one case, new hires showed up for their first day of work only to find a sign saying "This location closed permanently". Funny thing was, all locations were closed permanently. Terrible times.

    I suspect that in that case (a publically traded restaurant chain), the corporate office knew that the chain was circling the drain, but they could not give off any hints of any problems and could not make any public statements for fear of some legal problems, so they kept hiring, buying food and equipment, and just running the business up until that last day when they knew they wouldn't meet payroll or a supply payment, and from there they went straight into an asset sale.

    Not saying this is going to happen with NI. I'm just saying that hiring is only one small barometer to the health of a company, and it's a small one at that.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 15, 2016
  15. tripecac

    tripecac Forum Member

    Messages:
    77
    As people predicted, we didn't see a half-off deal during either Black Friday or the Xmas holiday sale.

    So, when do you think the next chance will be for the Komplete 11 upgrade to go on sale for $99 (instead of the normal $199)?
     
  16. Rinaldo Jonathan

    Rinaldo Jonathan New Member

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    10
    next year.
     
  17. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    15,075
    Only NI knows what kind of sale they will do and when.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Rinaldo Jonathan

    Rinaldo Jonathan New Member

    Messages:
    10
    agree.
    NI are known to be like Steam. you could buy anything today, but there are possiblilities to have some crazy **** discounts tomorrow, and you can't do anything with your bought products yesterday.

    hail lord Gaben!
     
  19. wblackledg

    wblackledg NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    356

    had this conversation before. Komplete use to be complete until it wasn't. Now Komplete Ultimate is no longer complete.
    I'm on K9 and haven't felt the need/desire/want to upgrade. Perhaps that will change.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2017
  20. wblackledg

    wblackledg NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    356
    June 2017? (Just a guess)