Komplete Kontrol S49 Channel for MIDI OUT port

Discussion in 'KOMPLETE KONTROL SERIES' started by Dan Howell, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. Dan Howell

    Dan Howell New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Hi there,

    I am trying to send MIDI from the MIDI OUT port of my Komplete Kontrol S49 keyboard into the MIDI IN port of my Elektron Analog A4.

    Regardless of the channel that I set for my keyboard in the Controller editor (I followed the instructions here) I can only send channel 1 out to my A4 (which corresponds to the first track on my A4).

    See attached pic where I have set the keyboard to send midi on channel 2.

    Also note that I am able to send different channels from my Bass Station 2 into my A4, so I know it should be possible.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. terrybritton

    terrybritton NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    582
  3. JesterMgee

    JesterMgee NI Product Owner

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    1,904
    Yes, don't double post, it gets confusing!
     
  4. Dan Howell

    Dan Howell New Member

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    13
    Apologies for the double post - I decided this issue warranted it's own thread.

    I have definitely created the template correctly, and selected it in the controller editor. I have even used the up and down preset arrows to change between the four channels.

    Also I have verified that the CORRECT midi channel is being sent via USB to ableton live.

    But - the 5 pin midi out port still only sends on channel 1, regardless of all the above.

    Seems like either I have a dodgy unit, or NI made some weird design decision to separate the midi port from the template...
     
  5. terrybritton

    terrybritton NI Product Owner

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    582
    Ahh - I see what you are saying now! Sorry - I'm dense. I'll give it a look Wednesday to see if I can fathom how this is done. It certainly would seem that the MIDI port setting should follow the USB setting, though.

    Terry
     
  6. terrybritton

    terrybritton NI Product Owner

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    582
    Just a moment - have you tried unplugging the USB cable already? It was my understanding that the 5-pin only acts independently if the USB is unplugged. Otherwise, one needs to loopback via ones DAW or by virtual MIDI cable to send out the desired 5-pin MIDI port.

    This is from memory - checking the manual now.

    Terry
     
  7. terrybritton

    terrybritton NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    582
    Manual confirms - and more - page 251, section 23-5 Standalone Operation:

    Activating Stand-alone Operation

    In order to use your KOMPLETE KONTROL S-SERIES keyboard in stand-alone mode, disconnect the USB cable from the device. After a brief moment, the default Template is loaded, and stand-alone mode is active.

    ▪ By default, KOMPLETE KONTROL S-SERIES keyboards send notes to the 5-pin MIDI OUT port on MIDI channel 1.

    ▪ MIDI data can be received via the MIDI IN port.

    ▪ Templates cannot be switched.

    Changing MIDI Channel and Controller Numbers

    When switching to stand-alone operation, the KOMPLETE KONTROL S-SERIES keyboard loads the assignments made in the Default Template set up in Controller Editor. You can change any assignments in the default 'Template 1' in the Templates pane of the Inspector. Then, while the KOMPLETE KONTROL S-SERIES keyboard is connected:
    ► Right-click the Template 1 entry (Ctrl-click on Mac OS X).
    ► In the context menu which opens, select Set as Standalone Default.

    In the dialog window that opens, confirm that you want to overwrite the current Standalone Default Template.
    ► Disconnect the KOMPLETE KONTROL S-SERIES keyboard from your computer. → Your updated Standalone Default Template is loaded.

    By creating additional Templates, you can switch between different stand-alone configurations. KOMPLETE KONTROL S-SERIES keyboards can only load one stand-alone Template at a time, though.
    So, there is the whole story.
     
  8. Dan Howell

    Dan Howell New Member

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    13
    Forgot to thank you for this answer Terry - It helped solve my issue last year :)
     
  9. terrybritton

    terrybritton NI Product Owner

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    Heh! That is great to hear, Dan! :)

    Terry
     
  10. Darrien

    Darrien NI Product Owner

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    569
    Do I get this right? You can't set the Midi Out Channel without opening some controller software on a computer and configure it there?
     
  11. JayPatrol

    JayPatrol New Member

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    9
    Things have have changed with mk2 since this help was provided.

    I hope I've read the manual and checked the online support diligently enough.

    The mk2 Manual section 8.4. Using the Keyboard as Stand-Alone MIDI Controller provides a list of MIDI messages and confirms that the USB connection should be unplugged for Stand-Alone MIDI mode, but doesn't say much beyond that.

    The online information provides different instructions for mk2 versus mk1 and says:

    Please note that the default MIDI mapping is not editable.
    (https://support.native-instruments....NTROL-Keyboard-as-Stand-Alone-MIDI-Controller)

    With the the USB connected I've followed the manual's text and have created a "Studio Setup" and "Live Setup" just to give me something to switch between to test.

    For the test I've split the keyboard in two for the Live Setup template and set the splits to MIDI channels 8 and 9.

    Whilst the USB is still connected and the MIDI 5 pin is also connected, it will output to channels 8 and 9 on my external synth (Roland FA08).

    And, I can successfully switch between the templates.

    With the USB removed (and the NI power cable attached) the keyboard will use the latest selected template as its default template but only the first split is active (in my case for the Live setup channel 8 - on the first half the keyboard - set to display in blue). The right half of the keyboard which should outputting to channel 9 and displaying in purple has no lights and doesn't output anything.

    (There is no 'set as default template' option in the Template inspector for the mk2 - just 'rename' option).

    I am unable to switch between the templates without a USB connection.

    The functionality I was hoping to be able to use was to setup a number templates with custom splits and channel outputs for me to select in live (stand-alone MIDI / no computer) use to suit the needs of individual songs.

    I looks like that isn't possible and it will just support one channel and no split in standalone mode. Have I missed or misunderstood something please?

    Sorry for the long post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  12. terrybritton

    terrybritton NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    582
    Jay,

    The units do not store the templates internally other than just the one (default) template. When you are switching templates, the templates are transferred via the USB cable via the proprietary communications channel that is part of the Komplete Kontrol protocol. (On your Mk1 units, that is the "KOMPLETE KONTROL DAW" channel. They seem to have unified or hidden that extra channel on the Mk2 instruments.) So, it is actually loading templates from the computer over the USB cable, something which cannot be done via a 5-pin MIDI interface.

    I am not certain why your split does not work in normal standalone mode. Perhaps the default did not update itself as you had hoped.

    I had found that I needed to run the Controller Editor as an Administrator in order for it to write to the keyboard's default template. Did you start normally? That might explain it.

    Terry
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  13. JayPatrol

    JayPatrol New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Hi Terry

    Many thanks for taking the time to look at this.

    I'm Mac-based and using a S49 mk2 so that might lead to some differences between what you see/know and what I see.

    In some instructions online I saw that there was an admin option for the assignment controller in Windows but that doesn't appear to be the case for the Mac and/or KK for mk2.

    I think my failed split test might have resulted from me not restarting the keyboard after unplugging the USB, or unplugging whilst it was being written to.

    I'm now consistently not able to get any split to be remembered after the keyboard has been turned off and on again (after removing the USB cable. Not really practical to transport the keyboard without turning it off! :)

    From what I can see there, for the mk2, that means it's just channel 1 MIDI and not splits.
     
  14. terrybritton

    terrybritton NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    582
    Jay,

    I do not have a Mac to test this on at all, so sorry. But can you get it to save a default template of ANY kind to the unit? Remember to unplug the USB when testing or it will just download a template again from the computer and not use its internally saved one.

    I have both an S-88 Mk1 and an S-49 Mk2, so let me know if I can perform any tests at all. If you saved a template file, upload it here and I'll try it on mine.

    Terry
     
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  15. JayPatrol

    JayPatrol New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Hi Terry

    I don't think I am able to save a default template of any kind to the unit.

    This is my process:

    1. Plugged in: USB, power, MIIDI
    2. Create new template/s
    3. Switch to MIDI mode
    4. Scroll between them using Preset Up and Down on keyboard
    5. Power down keyboard
    6. Unplug USB
    7. Power up keyboard
    8. Keyboard just shows 'Default'

    I've attached a screenshot of my templates and the templates .DAT file (zipped it didn't want to let me upload the raw file).

    Jay
     

    Attached Files:

  16. JayPatrol

    JayPatrol New Member

    Messages:
    9
    I noticed something really interesting (to me!) as well:

    With no software running (no standalone KK or DAW), the keyboard will display the template name and the selected light guide colours + let me switch between templates - but not output MIDI.
     
  17. terrybritton

    terrybritton NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    582
    Well, I finally woke up and realized you were talking about a Mk2 keyboard, and as far as I can tell those cannot store custom offline default templates yet. Only the Mk1 series keyboards can.

    https://www.native-instruments.com/..._KONTROL_S-Series_2.10_MK2_Manual_English.pdf

    Why your splits do not work I don't understand - mine are working fine here. I set different channels for each split (up to 16 possible splits) and they are coming through.

    Sorry if I somehow led you astray. The controller editor is for Mk1 keys, Maschine and Traktor units. The Komplete Kontrol MIDI icon on the top right is the only place where Mk2 keyboards can be edited from, and as you discovered there is no way to set as default in those dialogs. Maybe someday.

    Terry
     
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  18. JayPatrol

    JayPatrol New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Thanks Terry

    No need for apologies necessary at all. I appreciate your help.

    Happy music making!

    Jay
     
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  19. JayPatrol

    JayPatrol New Member

    Messages:
    9
    Hi Terry

    I requested some technical support from NI after we discussed this issue.

    They are saying that it's not possible to split the keyboard in stand-alone MIDI mode on an mk2 - although not as explicitly as they could have.

    https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/360005426617

    I think it is also apparent that their claim it is necessary to buy a power supply is false. I have gained full access to all of the "powerful features"* just by powering a USB cable.

    *one default template, no splits no MIDI-mapping, ie. significantly less capability than mk1.

    Hope that helps other users / potential buyers.