1. We're currently conducting systematic tests with the release version of macOS 11 (Big Sur) in order to offer full compatibility of our products as soon as possible. You can find our latest compatibility status - here


    Please note that although announced at the same time as macOS Big Sur, Apple Silicon processors are an independent release with separate compatibility concerns for NI products. Compatibility with macOS Big Sur will not yet ensure compatibility with Apple Silicon processors. At the moment, Native Instruments products are not supported on computers with Apple Silicon processors. Read more - here

    Dismiss Notice

Maschine and Ableton Workflow - Is there a more seamless way?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by djix, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. djix

    djix NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    91
    Hi All,

    I've been working with Maschine MK3 for about a year now, and it's been great, especially in stand-alone mode.

    However, when I use it as a plugin in Ableton Live (9) and automate scene changes via MIDI, it doesn't behave the way it does in standalone mode.

    Because of this, I pretty much have to write the entire track in stand-alone mode, then use Ableton to sequence it. If I want to make any changes, I find the easiest thing to do is to exit Ableton, go back into Maschine stand-alone mode, make the changes, exit Maschine, go back into Ableton...

    Is there any way to make Maschine behave more like it does in stand-alone mode when it's being used as a plugin in Ableton Live?

    Cheers,

    -ix
     
  2. loachm

    loachm NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,047
    ,,,the only thing I can think of is that you run into trouble, if your trigger clips/midi parts don't have the same length like the Maschine scenes. If they don't match, then the playback in Maschine will be off in the following section.
     
  3. BigPictureSound

    BigPictureSound NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    262
    In Maschine, make sure “retrigger” is enabled for scenes.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  4. djix

    djix NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    91
    Hmm, thanks for the replies, but neither of these is really my problem. Let me try asking it another way:

    How do you create patterns and scenes in Maschine? Do you use the mouse and keyboard or the controller? Do you do it when it's a plug-in in Ableton? If so, do you also do it with Maschine as a stand-alone instrument?

    I think the part that I left out is that in stand-alone mode I'm using the controller pretty much exclusively, which is awesome, but once I get into Ableton I don't seem to be able to use the MK3 the same way. It behaves totally differently as a plug-in.

    Is there a way to make the MK3 behave the same way it does as a stand-alone as it does when it's a plug-in in a DAW?

    Thanks and sorry for any confusion :)

    Cheers,

    -loops
     
  5. BigPictureSound

    BigPictureSound NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    262
    No problem- I took a guess and just threw it out there. I actually use Maschine in standalone 90% of the time, but the few times I’ve used it as a plugin, the only difference (though major) is the loss of transport controls as it becomes slaved to whatever it’s loaded in.

    I have a Jam as well, so I use that for scenes, but patterns I create with the MK which you should still be able to do when in plugin mode. I tried many different methods to combine Maschine with my other DAW and settled on running standalone with Ableton Link turned on. I found triggering scenes via midi a PITA, and I really tried to eliminate tedious stuff like routing midi and audio to whatever channel.

    I am working on a remix right now using this method, with Maschine in sync with Reason which I use for vocal track and fills that might otherwise cause redundant pattern bloat. Once the song is arranged, I will bounce it all out into Reasons sequencer to apply fx automation and start mixing.

    if you do any sort of gating with an audio module, you’re going to want to bounce the wav into your daw anyways to envelope fade as the audio module has some zero-cross issues (you can get some loud clicks at start of chops).

    I probably didn’t help answer your behavior issues, but perhaps presenting a new way of working will make what your experiencing a non issue :)
     
  6. djix

    djix NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    91
    WHAMMO! And there it is. Great idea man, I'll "deaf" check that out ;) I've been aware of Link for a while but haven't used it yet. Will give that a go as it sounds promising, could be the best of both worlds?

    Thanks so much for your help!

    Cheers,

    -ix
     
  7. BigPictureSound

    BigPictureSound NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    262

    You got it! There are many ways to integrate Maschine into your workflow, and the best method to choose depends on the project. I find the hardware indispensable for composing, so besides dragging out audio, sometimes recording patterns in Maschine and dragging the midi out to your DAW's instrument works, too.

    Edit: Yes, for me it really is the best of both worlds. Just remember to press play in each software at the same time.

    Good luck!
     
  8. gummi

    gummi NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    48
    Can you explain how the MK3 behaves differently when using Maschine VST vs standalone?

    I currently have Maschine MK1, Maschine Jam and Komplete Kontrol S25 and I use those both with Maschine standalone and together with Ableton Live. And personally I feel most of the stuff is behaving exactly the same way in both cases - differences come mostly because of non-existing integration between Komplete Kontrol and Maschine VST.

    But as said earlier - there is so many ways to integrate Maschine together with DAW that it really comes into your own personal preferences how you want to work with it.

    My current setup is like this. Ableton Live is the main DAW and then Maschine runs as VST inside. Then I have a master template that I always use when I start new project. This template includes routing audio from Maschine into Live tracks and utilises MIDI clips for Maschine Scene launching.
    Basically I always have my drums in Maschine Group A (all 16 pads) that is routed into 8 different tracks inside Live (3xKicks, Snare, Clap, Closed Hat, Open Hat, Perc). Maschine Groups B to H are routed into own tracks in Live as well. Plus there is already some routing via 4 Bus channels before the audio goes to the Master track in Live to ease up the mixing & mastering.
    So when I start new project - I load up this template, save it as new project and start working. Optionally I can use Maschine standalone to start up the project and then just load the project inside Live+MaschineVST but then I just need to redo the routing from drums&groups into correct outputs so I can continue working on Live side for example on effects. But then I can just use both Ableton + Maschine in the same project and mostly it is working pretty good.

    Here is a screenshot of my basic template and it is used together with Maschine VST + the hardware. https://www.dropbox.com/s/yr6qnvlfuve3i5q/HXR-LiveMaschine-template.png?dl=0
     
  9. CH7

    CH7 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    497
    I was thinking about this.

    Wouldn't it be cool if Maschine came with a prepared Maschine/Ableton drumkit template, that you just draged into Ableton.

    At the same time you would simply set a flag in the maschine software to allow its sounds & midi to be enabled through that Ableton drum instrument.

    Needless to say there is now a way to do all this, it just that its a chore to set up, and should already be built into the software. ;(
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  10. djix

    djix NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    91
    Sure! When I'm in Maschine standalone, I have full control of the Maschine 2.7 software, including all its intended functionality and integrations with the MK3. So that means I can browse through libraries, load stuff, record patterns, sequence scenes, the whole nine yards, pretty much without ever looking at the screen.

    When I'm using Maschine as an Ableton Live plugin, I don't seem to be able to use the controller this way. I can mostly use it to trigger scenes to sequence them into a song, which is how I do use it, but I'd love to be able to have all that awesome functionality that I have when it's stand-alone as well.

    Tru dat.

    Looks like a great setup! I love how (I assume) you've color-coded the Ableton channels to match the colors on Maschine. Thanks for sharing that as well as the detailed description of your setup :)
     
  11. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,263
    I am not much of a fan of using Maschine inside a DAW either but all those things you mentioned can indeed be done from the controller in Maschine Plugin. Can you be more specific about what you're not finding a way to do?
     
  12. djix

    djix NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    91
    Hey D-One!

    Thanks for taking an interest. As I'm starting to build a track from scratch in Ableton 9 with Maschine as a plugin, I'm realizing that it might be mostly mental. I think I got so into using Maschine and only Maschine (great until you want to sequence a final track), adding another element (Ableton) totally changed my workflow. I'll have to revisit my MIDI settings in some of those projects I did earlier this year when I was in full-on production mode as well.

    The loss of transport is definitely noticeable, but I'm going to dust off my Evolution UC-33e and see if that can help me stay out of Ableton for the most part.

    Do Push and Maschine play nice together? Not that I have the $ and I'm guessing probably not :)

    Cheers,

    -loops
     
  13. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,263
    No problem man! :)

    What do you mean?
    You can configure the Play/Stop/Loop/etc buttons on the Controller to control Ableton that way it kind of acts similarly unless you for some reason want to have Maschine Plugin Play independently from Ableton which is not possible but I also dont see a point.

    No, not really IMO, I had one and sold it. (Not for this reason tho)
    It's a great controller if you're an Ableton User but mixing it with Maschine Plugin + Maschine controllers is a bit redundant and add's too much complication.
     
  14. djix

    djix NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    91
    Can you point me to this please? That would be pretty awesome :)

    I'm really just feeling out my options, I got into modular recently and I'm looking to integrate all that stuff in as well...

    Cheers!
     
  15. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,263
  16. djix

    djix NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    91
    Thanks D-One, but sadly the one Windows box I have in the house is my Windows 8 machine I use to make music. I tried loopMIDI as the virtual MIDI port, rebooted, it doesn't seem to work.

    If anyone else has had any luck with this, I'd love to hear from you!

    Cheers,

    -ix
     
  17. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    9,263
    Doesn't windows see any Maschine virtual port by default? Try using the real port instead of a virtual one then..