1. Hi everyone,

    We have just announced our latest version of the Komplete bundles.

    Find out more about the bundles and the newly added instruments

    Komplete 13 is available for pre-order now, and will become available for download on October 1, 2020.

    Best wishes, 
    The NI Team

    Dismiss Notice

Maschine does not record automation from Midi-CC / 3rd party controllers?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Mr. RecordBot, Aug 31, 2018.

  1. Mr. RecordBot

    Mr. RecordBot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    210
    As native Mk3 user (pun intended) I found out about this pretty late I guess. Maschine Standalone does not record parameter automation from 3rd party midi controllers.

    Meaning: I assign Automation Page 1 Knob 1 to an external controller like an encoder on my Midi keyboard. When I twist the knob on my external controller, the knob in Maschine Software does rotate. But it cannot be recorded as automation (or "modulation" as they used to call it)? This amazes me as much as it makes me feel "out of this world". Like, Cubase 1 could do that in 1995.

    Please confirm - or better, tell me that it actually does work and I'm doing it wrong - if it's the later you could call me an idiot, I wouldn't mind.
     
  2. Mr. RecordBot

    Mr. RecordBot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    210
    So in a different perspective that means the Maschine Hardware Series and the Komplete Keyboards are the ONLY options to automate parameters in Maschine?
     
  3. dasoli

    dasoli NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    469
  4. Mr. RecordBot

    Mr. RecordBot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    210
    Thanks, but at that point the magic simplicity of Maschine turned against it's creator, or user. If I have to map around with quirks virtual midi cables I see no point in using it at all.

    Close to selling all my NI gear and order a Push 2 including Live Suite..
     
  5. Mr. RecordBot

    Mr. RecordBot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    210
    I also find it worth noting: You cannot use multiple Maschines at the same time, e.g. an Mk3 + a Mikro Mk2. The only working combo seems to be any real Maschine + a Jam + a Komplete keyboard. Although I don't know if you could use multiple Jams or keyboards.

    That means the amount of dial knobs you could possibly use at the same time with Maschine is limited to 16 in total + the Jam. Which I find pretty limiting. And one even more limiting factor in this scenario is that all of the mentioned units are huge. I imagine having to build a circular desk or one involving steps. And I already have a 2,5 squaremeters desk with a sideboard (There are other things on there, too).

    This serious design flaw could be fixed probably within an working hour or two by NI. It's just they stick to a marketing based design concept that didn't work out. It turned against them. They're close to broke it seems. Fire your marketing team, please.

    I assume they where thinking "if we open automation to 3rd party Midi controllers then people will only buy the Mikro + a cheap 3rd party controller" - well in the real world outside of those heads people like me make descisions based on other parameters like budget and practicality. I never considered buying the Mikro + 3rd party controller to replace buying an Mk3. In terms of pricing this is hard to justify either, any decent controller will cost easily 200€, a Mikro 300€, then you can buy into Mk3 right away.
     
  6. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    747
    Maybe you should look at your own body, you can at best only turn 2 dial encoders at the same time.

    Why not as you said in earlier post, just sell your NI gear and move on, then just maybe you will stop whining, and use your 'other' gear to create music.
     
  7. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,818
    Sorry but that is a very different discussion.
    16 buttons at your disposal, or only 2 can use at the same time.

    René.
     
  8. Mr. RecordBot

    Mr. RecordBot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    210
    Yeah, you're absolutely right. More than 2 dials make no sense at all - at least for some of us having issue with coordinating their own body.

    But eventually you'll catch up on the fact that you might want to have dedicated controls for different parts of your set, so you can tweak the bass with controller one and the keys with controller two...

    Despite your ignorant, non-provoked and strawman-argument style attack on me personally I have to correct your assumption: I'm actually making a lot of music on a regular basis. That's why I struggle with these artificially implemented limitations so often, those are simply in my way of creating music.

    Weird enough, each time I call out on NI's marketing bullc*** some loony toon arrives and starts to hate. What makes you think your actions are helpful to anyone, even NI? Being in denial about straight facts pretty much any customer complains about? What's that good for? Some folks should read into common literature like 1984 to get their facts straight that it's the 21st century. Ever heard the term "newspeak"?

    NI wants no more feedback from paying customers? Fine, go ahead, continue to make your bs products, receive 0 Stars on Amazon and other selling platforms and go broke right away. I wonder, besides these payed-for marketing ads on youtube I see hardly ANY professional using NIs products IRL. If you dig into any promoted artist stuffed out with the latest and greatest NI gear, research that guy, in is own videos no sign of NI products.

    So NI seems to focus entirely on the noob customers that weren't smart enough to ask in any forum before they buy. Good luck. Hate your customers and what they have to say. Good luck again.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    747
    16 encoder is enough for anybody, as I already said you can only use 2 at best each time, be more organised in a set & structure, any limitations can make you more creative. Wether that be encoders, FX or hardware limitations, you are only constrained by your own blinkered approach to creativity. How do you think some of us coped in the early 80's with such limited synths, yes by being creative in our approach.

    As for personal attack, well that's your own opinion, if you see it that way, I couldnt give a monkeys.

    Pretty sure you will also find the 8 encoders on a Push2 limited too lol. Maybe NI isnt for you, so go right ahead and use Ableton, with Push2, it may suit you better, for me I use both, Maschine for getting the basics done, then move across to Ableton to finish up adding any vocals and hardware FX if needed.
     
  10. Goon

    Goon NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    747
    Maybe you dont watch same Pro's as I do, but see many gigging with NI gear, inc OMD for a start they using KK Mk2 keys, Maroon 5 use Maschine in studio, Calvin Harris using their plugins, just to name a couple. Could go on, but proves your comment is wrong.
     
  11. Mr. RecordBot

    Mr. RecordBot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    210
    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2010/jun/25/iphone-reception-problems-solved
     
  12. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    8,939
    Yeah, the working combo is one of each type of controller. You cant use multiple 4x4 Maschine controllers at the same time, that's an easier way to say it.
    I haven't tested it but it should be the same for Jam and KK-S,even if they worked alongside each other they would be mirrors of their counterparts and render the duplicate units useless since they can't independently control different things... It's not exactly a design flaw but a lack of a feature. Trust me, baking this into the software is not something you would do "in an hour", it's way more complex than it seems and considering the software is not very mature yet I am not sure it's worth the time just for the very few users who own duplicate controllers... at least for now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Mr. RecordBot

    Mr. RecordBot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    210
    Thanks for clarifying.

    This "hour" was referring to being able to record automation with 3rd party controllers. You can already control parameters with those, that means a simple button in the Software (or allowing the activation via a real Maschine) would be enough. The knobs move already, just record them. Same way like in the mentioned (but impractical) workaround, where you control parameters of a VST directly and Maschine WILL record that as automation. If NIs devs need a week to make that happen.. well lets not go overboard today with insults. ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    8,939
    Ooohh.. My bad then, I misinterpreted what you meant. I have to agree with you then, not being able to record 3rd party midi automation is just a silly omission.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. ALDREAD

    ALDREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,168
    No , this is not true , each Maschine offers the user a different experience.
    Opening up the software fully to any 3rd party controller , would probably give people more of a reason to pirate the software. Remember Maschine is not ableton,cubase,logic ,reason etc , it’s part software part hardware combo designed to work together.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. ALDREAD

    ALDREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,168
    I disagree, it’s tactical genius

    Not being able to use two controllers at once is silly to me tho , even if they display the same .
     
  17. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    8,939
    Opening MIDI automation wouldn't render NI multiple controllers useless, remember that there are many things that are not mappable and can only be accessed from the hardware.
    Really? I would never ever buy another NI Maschine-controller just for extra MIDI automation recording options... Maybe if a Traktor F1 worked i would get one of those, but I don't think even that works...
    Interesting point of view... What's the benefit of having two identical controllers on the same menu displaying the same parameters in your opinion? The only use case scenario I can imagine is two people doing some sort of live act using one computer/soft and two controllers.
     
  18. ALDREAD

    ALDREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,168
    If you have a big studio ;) and you don’t want to move
     
  19. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    8,939
    Wow... First world problems han? :D
    Well... I have a small studio but when I got the MK3 I had it and the M-Studio a bit far from each other while I was learning the MK3, I would just press Shift+Channel when I moved to the other controller to change which one is controlling the software... not a big deal for me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. ALDREAD

    ALDREAD NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,168
    It’s not about you buying another Maschine controller, it’s about you not buying a Maschine controller and software , and just getting a copy of the software and using a cheap controller.

    How much you can do in the software without a controller .

    You can’t double a pattern
    Scales
    Arp

    That’s Off the top of my head , so please add if you know anything else

    What you can’t do with a 3 rd party controller

    Automation
    Scales
    Arp
    Control the software (but that obvious)
    They have added being able to control pad mode (drum kit)

    So what I’m saying is , you can control the software with the mouse and a 3rd party controller .

    If they added automation, all you’d be missing would be scales , arp and double a pattern .
    And I think some people wouldn’t be bothered to much about that
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2018
    • Like Like x 1