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Maschine MK3 poor Ableton Integration

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Alex.Korznikov, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. Alex.Korznikov

    Alex.Korznikov New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Hello everyone.

    I was trying to solve this problem by myself, but I've lost any hope to do it alone. I watched huge amount of videos on youtube, downloaded a big amount of templates, but they all can't fix the big main problem of maschine - it can't work with Ableton properly. What's wrong with this hardware? I have komplete kontrol s49 and it works just fine. MK3 was promoted as a hardware with nice Ableton integration, but I don't see it. It just ruining my workflow instead making it faster (another example of ruined workflow - you can't put two patterns in one scene - it's really weird and it's slower me down).

    So, please, could anybody explain me how to intgreate it properly to the DAW? Maybe you have some tutorial that worked for you?

    P.S. In Ableton I can't use Maschine's "Record" "Play" and "Stop" buttons. Really? I bought hardware with such buttons and still i have to click in DAW to record??

    I'd appreciate any help, guys!

    Thank you !
     
  2. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

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    1,338
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  3. Alex.Korznikov

    Alex.Korznikov New Member

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    11
  4. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    7,060
    Hi Alex.
    Well... Integration is a broad term that can mean many things, what exactly are you trying/expecting it to do?

    Yes, you can.
    I recommend my own guide to use it across Ableton Live projects and avoid remapping all the time: (it will work for previously created Live Projects)
    https://www.native-instruments.com/...-ableton-live-transport-play-stop-etc.338129/

    I also advise you to read the context of that guide, specifically post #4 to understand the difference between:
    MIDI Remote Script (also referred to as Advanced Integration) VS "Maschine MK3 (legacy) Template", they offer different ways of integration, the first is more visually more appealing, although unfinished and it's not editable; the later is uglier, somewhat editable, has more functions but is also only half finished (it was ported from the Maschine Studio, which has a 100x more complex and usefull template)
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
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  5. Alex.Korznikov

    Alex.Korznikov New Member

    Messages:
    11
    I did everything step by step from yuor guide - that didn't help. I'm on Win 10 by the way. Thank you for trying to help.

    Looks like there is no way to do it from the box. And all those promotions about easy Ableton integration were only sugar for customers eyes. Gonna dance with it few more days and if I won't get any results I'm gonna return it to the shop. I had no problems with komplete kontrol s49 and I'm surprised that I have so many underwater stones with maschine. I looked through the forum - looks like I'm not the only one with such problem. It's become a complete frustration to have such nice looking device with cool samples for 500+ dollars that don't have all those promised features.

    NI what's wrong with you? Is it so hard to make integration with at least ONE DAW?oO
     
  6. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,060
    No problem. Personally, I don't even consider Transport Controls "integration", that would be things far more complicated then enabling Play & Stop buttons. You need to help yourself by mentioning what is not working, otherwise, we can't help you, there are about 3 steps to make it work so we need to understand which one is failing.

    Is Ableton receiving any MIDI from the Controller? If it is the top orange square next to the MIDI Map button should blink every time you press a transport button on the MK3, report back.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Alex.Korznikov

    Alex.Korznikov New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Yes, my software see maschine, everything is blinking okay )

    Problem is that I can't record normally with Maschine. And I can't find any normal guide that would let me record as easy, as I do with Komplete Kontrol MK2.

    I need Ableton to record midi events from Maschine, in the same way as a Komplete Kontrol keyboard do. For example :

    1) I put Maschine plugin in Channel 1 (Midi).
    2) Creating a beat within ONE single group of sounds.
    3) I see in Ableton what I've just recorded. Not only in Maschine. And in the same time im controlling ableton with Maschine's "Play Stop Record" buttons.

    Do you know some methods that would allow me to do this? If so, tell me, please

    Also, I found some legacy template, but it also doesn't work well. Really, on this moment there are only crutches that provide you with fractional integration with ableton.
     
  8. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,060
    Your mixing subjects tho, weren't we talking about "Play, Record, Stop, etc" !? Is that fixed and have you learned that part?
    Explaining multiple things in one go in written text will get confusing, one step at a time.
     
  9. Alex.Korznikov

    Alex.Korznikov New Member

    Messages:
    11
    I made them work with the help of your guide, but Record button still don't work in Ableton. So for example if I connected maschine plugin and pressed Record - it would active record only inside maschine plugin. But I need this button to activate record in Ableton, like Komplete Kontrol MK2 do.
     
  10. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,060
    If you notice when you enable Host Transport Control in CE there are 5 buttons highlighted in green, those are the ones that can be mapped, Record is not one of them, unfortunately. You can, however, assign any of the 5 buttons to be a Live Record button, or to do anything else you might want. Would you like to do that?
    [​IMG]


    Komplete Kontrol Software has no Play/Stop/Etc that's why the buttons work out of the box for the Keyboard, it's there specifically for the host DAW, not KK.

    Don't expect Maschine to ever behave exactly like KK, keep in mind Maschine is a Sampler, Sequencer, Groovebox, etc with a dedicated controller, it was built as a standalone application first then got a VST version much later version while KK was always designed to be used in a DAW as an instrument wrapper, they are very different things thus can't behave the same. There's no point in owning a Maschine controller if all you want is to load Sample on it and trigger it from midi if that's your goal you might as well just get any generic cheap 4x4 MIDI pad controller. KK will be able to trigger samples/loops in an imminent update btw.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019 at 4:53 PM
  11. Alex.Korznikov

    Alex.Korznikov New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Okay, so is there any guide with the help of which I can make maschine record into Ableton in the same time using plugin to browse through the machine's sound library? In other words can I make maschine to behave as a cheap midi pad controller with maschine's plugin?)

    I didn't think that such hardware can't handle such simple task - record to the DAW it's own sounds. And to turn on Record with its own button. Anyway could you send please normal guides for Ableton integration which you mentioned in other topic when I've sent you video from youtube?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 9, 2019 at 4:53 PM
  12. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,060
    Sorry dude but at this point, I feel like I am doing your work for you and you're not really listening, I already told you how to in another thread and what to follow and so you can learn how MIDI works when no one else here did, I have even sent you a personal template... I can't hold your hand during the whole process.

    If that's what you want Open Controller Editor, select the transport MCU from my thread and assign a different note/cc to each pad/button, then use the method in that video you posted, switch to MIDI mode to input the notes and basically enjoy 3% of the 600$ paid for.
    [​IMG]
    Copy the Mikro's fixed mapping if you want:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  13. Weakandwackbeats

    Weakandwackbeats New Member

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    i've just loaded this... how on earth do you get a pad to do anything... looks like a mixers dream, but that's about it...

    Any tutorials on this? cheers
     
  14. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,060
    The point of what you quoted me is just to enable the Transport Control buttons to work while the Maschine controllers control the Maschine Plugin inside Ableton, not Ableton itself, so the point here is not getting pads or any other buttons to do anything in Live. It's just enabling the buttons circled in green below:

    [​IMG]

    What controller do you have and what do you want to do? Play Ableton instruments with Maschine controller in MIDI mode?
     
  15. ShelLuser

    ShelLuser NI Product Owner

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    153
    Well, for what's it worth I managed to get this working. Windows 10, latest Live 10 and I assume latest Maschine as well (I didn't bother with firmware upgrades and all that, just installed the latest versions of Maschine & the Controller Editor). Basically used Native Access.

    Anyway, first I used the Controller Editor to make sure my setup was back to the defaults. No MCU Transport or anything. Oh, just in case I did add the "Ableton Live" template (basically "Ableton Live 9") but kept the default "Template 1" selected. Closed the editor.

    Then I performed the steps from N.I. support, as shared by René must be Unique here (link). So I copied "_NativeInstruments" and "Maschine_Mk3" into the 'Resources\MIDI Remote Scripts' found in the Ableton program folder.

    Turned on my Push & Maschine, fired up Live, checked my MIDI settings and added Maschine Mk3 and that was that.

    It took Maschine a little while but eventually it turned on and I could see my tracks on the mixer, the transports worked and I could even control the track volume from behind my Maschine:

    upload_2019-11-9_18-29-36.png

    It simply worked as expected.

    Of course now comes the next part... if I load in the Maschine plugin then the controller switches back and then I lose access to the Live transport. For now this isn't an issue for me because I have my Push right next to me, but it's something I'm going to look into next.

    But bottom line here: it can honestly be made to work, and it isn't all that hard either. So if this doesn't work for you then I can't help but wonder if there isn't something else that's causing those problems?
     
  16. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,060
    What you see on that picture is what NI calls "DAW Control" (here, and here) and then calls it "MK3 Integration" here, to add some more confusion to the term it used to be called "Advanced Integration", you will find that term all over the forum when researching for information, some people use the MIDI mode terms knowing what it means others not really, big mess...

    I warned them several times that this naming is not consistent and confuses the hell out of people, even experienced musicians, it should be simple and clear to understand what does what and what is called what. I gave up repeating myself. (I dont think NI has much interest at all in improving the current solutions for DAW control and TBH I rather they focus on improving the software anyway... )

    On the controller:
    Press Shift+PLUGIN to switch between: DAW Control (what you have on your Picture) and Maschine Plugin Mode, (as well as select/activate/Focus different Maschine Plugin Instances if you have more than one inside the DAW)

    Press Shift+Channel/MIDI to switch to MIDI Mode.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2019 at 8:02 PM
  17. ShelLuser

    ShelLuser NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    153
    I'm well aware of that method now, you only have to tell me these things once (and you already did in my Mikro Mk3 thread) ;)

    I was hinting at the next step: getting the transport to work in "Maschine mode" as I like to call it. But that has a very low priority on my todo list because I have plenty of other options and too much stuff to learn & experiment with. I stil think it's quite impressive that you can switch between so many 'modes' on the Maschine.
     
  18. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

    Messages:
    7,060
    Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you then, I reply to so many people I dont always remember what I already said to a particular user., just trying to help. I also replied to that next transport step in the other thread... :thumbsup:
     
  19. Weakandwackbeats

    Weakandwackbeats New Member

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    14
    Pretty much just make battery work. Control battery in Ableton
    .. Ha. But the pads don't control it. It's useless for some reason..
     
  20. ShelLuser

    ShelLuser NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    153
    ?

    So: use Maschine to control Live to control Battery? I like it! :D

    Of course there's a reason: why not load Battery right into Maschine?

    At this point in time I have my own ideas, also considering you're not the OP, but heck.

    So for the record: I took off the cover of the Mascine and left Push unpushed (and covered) :rolleyes:

    Turned on Maschine (controller), hit midi mode and then fired up Live.

    <here my brain stopped working>

    (too much )

    SO...

    [​IMG]

    I like pudding by the way:)

    This is how you do it I thnk.

    (edit) Pads correspnd perfectly, my emotes got removed ;)