Mk3 potentiometer causing settings to jump around

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by kaotik78, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    I've had this MK3 for about a month now and while adjusting the decay in Absynth I noticed my settings would not stay put, they would fluctuate. I recorded this in hopes that if anyone else experiences a similar issue they may find this and compare. Time will tell to see if this will continue or if it is just an issue with either Absynth or the knob itself.

    I fired up Massive and attempted to adjust a setting on the same knob and the symptoms do not exhibit what is shown in the video.

     
  2. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    1,038
    Maybe u have already i would u install the driver and reinstall again.. MAC or PC?
     
  3. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    6,505
    Coincidently I noticed something similar yesterday. For me, it happens with the knob that is "looser" (has less strength /resistance/friction while rotating) How does the knob physically feel for you in comparison with the others that work fine?
    [​IMG]

    From my understanding pots naturally fluctuate but the software stabilizes it, a minimum rotation threshold has to be reached before it actually changes a parameter, so, either the knob is beginning to break or there's a software issue, hopefully, it's the latter not the former. I need to do some more tests but I am not happy atm...
     

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    Last edited: Jul 4, 2019
  4. LEGENDARYFINS

    LEGENDARYFINS NI Product Owner

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    152
    I too encountered this issue with my first MK3. For me it was the third knob and it was really bad. Values would ride up and down like a pogo stick and it effected editing my slices the most. To be fair, I contacted technical support and they were solid for the most part and took care of me. I ended up having to get a new unit. I'm no expert, but I think it's the new touch sensitive knobs used on the new models that cause them to act up. The MK1 I've had for like 9 yrs and it's been a tank.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2019
  5. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    213
    I am using a Mac currently. I haven’t tried or even looked into reinstalling drivers. Does the Mac version even have drivers?
     
  6. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    213
    The knob actually has slight more resistance than others. The fluctuation us completely understandable from an electronics standpoint. Since it did not exhibit the same issue with Massive I'm leaning towards it being a software issue. I'm going to run through Absynth again tonight and fiddle a bit more with it to see if it is indeed just the software or in this case Absynth.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  7. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    6,505
    Yes, there are background services that are needed for communication between controllers and the software. (This is why downgrading is not advised) They are auto installed when Maschine is installed. Also, check if your firmware is up to date, Maschine doesn't always have a popup letting you know a new version is available.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    213
    I'm beginning to lean towards this being an issue with Absynth.

    Currently I am on 2.8.2 (R695) on a Mac running Sierra 10.12.6

    I created a new project with just Absynth and chose Terminator Bass and created a simple pattern, the values for attack and decay would change after being adjusted and even pressing play on the MK3 would result in values changing. The video below shows this.



    I then swapped my MK3 for my MK2 and observed the same results. Please forgive the one handed shift press and knob adjust for the fine tuning, but the results were the same, values were adjusting on their own for adjacent settings. It also looks like my left hand was touching the further encoder but it did not. The fluctuation was less with the MK2 I but still there.



    To go a bit further, I did try different USB ports on my Mac and all exhibited the same results of jumping. I also opted to try a different plugin and chose Kontakt Acid Tube Bass and went to the Phaser settings and also saw the Depth fluctuating on both my MK3 and MK2 after adjusting. With the depth setting initially at 50%, swapping back and forth between MK2 and MK3 depth would go from 50 to 53 or 54 - 54.3% as I just noticed while typing this.

    So I am now wondering if it is a software issue across the board as I seem to be exhibiting the same issues on the MK2 and MK3.

    I'm going to got to 2.8.3 next and try again.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    213
    Left my MK3 turned on and restarted Maschine software which prompted the firmware update from 1.4.1 to 1.4.3. After a successful update I started the testing process again which resulted in Absynth Terminator Bass attack / decay staying at 0 initially but once adjusted the decay, the setting that is above the knob to the left of the MK3 unit continued to increment by 1 or decrease by 1 but less than before, meaning it was not instantaneous once you released the knob if at all.

    Adjusting the decay while playing a pattern would no longer adjust the attack of the adjacent knob after the firmware update.

    When returning to the Kontakt plugin of Acid Tube Bass, the Phaser setting depth, same setting underneath the second knob form the left would initially start at 50% and then go to 50.3% and back to 50 and so on. Adjusting depth would result in intermittent adjustments from say an initial setting of 46 to 46.9 to 47.

    After the firmware update for the MK3, I then plugged in my MK2 and noticed that the Kontakt plugin of Acid Tube Bass phaser depth did not adjust or fluctuate after adjustment or even on initial startup, the same result was replicated for Absynth Terminator Bass. Going back to the MK3 for Absynth Terminator Bass and adjusting the Decay from 0 to another number seemed ok, but going back to 0 resulted in -0, 1 or 1.

    I'm wondering now if the code written for adjusting the encoders needs some additional work because as I continue to type here I am noticing my Depth setting on Acid Tube Bass in Kontakt on the MK3 screen hardware is going from 50% to 50.1% to 49.7%. Given the slightest touch on these new encoders and the slight incrementing and decrease of values I am curious if there is another firmware update to be had to make adjustments stay put after they are adjusted.

    I then went to just midi mode and on CC70 and CC71 I adjusted the knobs and neither would change. I'm not certain if this indicates an issue with the Maschine software and how the knobs voltage is being calculated and translated to a numerical output within the Maschine software or not but I'm leaning towards yes.

    Anyone else have any other insight so, good bad etc?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  10. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    1,038
    Hmm so firmware upgrade didn't fix it.... your have just maschine open? Again i may have missed what do you have connected to your MAC?

    Sounds like a software issue which to me is mounting to troubleshoot i know its a pain try reverting to a earlier version...nope i take that back since maschine has a ton a problems when you do that.. another bugfix coming.. this is my problem with NI..
     
  11. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    213
    Currently there is nothing connected to my Mac Pro other than a cinema display, the bluetooth wireless mac mouse, a wired mac keyboard, the MK3 with the included NI branded USB cable.
     
  12. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    1,038
    okay so the problem is with the software just like D one experienced so..i guess a bug, I hope and pray NI opens up there software to other platforms..would be in there best interest..BTW someone in our studio had a similar issue we didnt look tho..i dont like troubleshoot IT issues when im not getting paid for it lol..I try here at this forum I do!!!
     
  13. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    213
    I am hoping this can be corrected via software. I happened to have a Macbook Pro with a copy of Maschine 2.4 on it which did not exhibit any of these issues with the MK2 hardware. Sadly I was not able to get my MK3 to work with it and had to update to 2.8.3. Once I did the same issues arose on the Macbook pro and 2.8.3 with the MK3.

    I will say that when automation is recorded, any knob/encoder change does get picked up and recorded. I just created a 2 bar pattern and used the step sequencer and hit record and auto and sure enough on each pass while the parameters are being changed without my touching any encoder, it's getting recorded.

    It's not just with Absynth either, as Komplete, Prism and even, and I have to recant my statement previously regarding the midi mode, that too also exhibits some variation once the encoder/knob is moved about. Sometimes it's instant, other times it happens a few seconds afterwards. Regardless, once the parameter has been set, it should stay the same.

    I would be curious to hear if anyone else using say a Komplete Kontrol as they are using the same knobs/encoders is experiencing a similar issue from within the Maschine software.
     
  14. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    1,038
    Sorry you are having the problem tried to help.... hopfully a quick bug report it if u didn't already
     
  15. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    213
    No worries, I appreciate it. Going through and updating the firmware was certainly a step in the right direction. I have gone forward and submitted a bug report to Native Instruments support describing the problem and providing links to the videos illustrating the issue further. I am hoping it is a software issue that can be corrected otherwise if it is found out to be hardware related, this will be the second Maschine hardware purchase (mk2/mk3) I have purchased new that has had an issue within a month of purchase that required a replacement.
     
  16. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    213
    It has been a full week so far and I have not heard back from NI regarding my hardware/software issue. I provided details, video and their software tool report including my make model and serial of my month old MK3. They don’t list a phone number that I could find on their website to contact directly and I created another ticket mid week which they closed out with no reply.

    Was working on another project and working on a mix and the fluctuation continues to make eq’ing difficult as values continue to change without user adjustment.
     
  17. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    1,038
    Normal IT ticket SLA have a 72 hour window were they generate a callback of some sort.. if you have your old ticket# you should put that in your new support request...
     
  18. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    213
    I have indeed added all ticket numbers, hopefully I will hear from them next week to get this sorted. I found another instance of this from another user but they returned/exchanged at a store rather than go direct through NI.

    https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/erratic-encoders-on-mk3.336811/page-2
     
  19. kaotik78

    kaotik78 NI Product Owner

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    213
    I heard back from Frank@ NI yesterday July 18th letting me know that:

    “This appears to be an issue related to the hardware device that will need to be replaced.”

    I was seriously hoping it was software. I feel that a Bruce Willis quote is appropriate now as “how can the same .... happen to the same guy twice”.

    Frank reminded me that the warranty on Mk3’s is one year and after that:

    “If the product falls out of the one year limited warranty period, we do offer an out of warranty replacement option for a certain fee based on the type of issue the device has.”

    Vexing as I supplied video of my Mk2 and Mk3 exhibiting issues, so it seems that I won’t get closure on this only another Mk3.
     
  20. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    1,038
    Wow I have nothing nice to say but WOW!

    So I can't hold back lol.. it took 14 days since post this on the forum to get for a response.. SMH!