N.I. -PLEASE- pursue NS7 / NS7II support.

Discussion in 'DJ Controllers' started by t0t4l_n3wb, Aug 30, 2013.

  1. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Look at this thing... that's sweet as hell.

    The -big- kick is the motorized platters. Sure, anybody can scratch with a static platter, but having that force feedback pushing against your fingers and having the platter move on its own volition and keeping pace with the music really takes it beyond just wiggling a lifeless jog wheel or having a "touch sensor" that senses when you touch the platter but still doesn't recreate that feeling of actually having real control over the pressure applied since it's just a binary, on or off, touching or not touching kind of deal. There's also those drum pads. So much potential. This is the kit I've been dreaming about.

    Buuuuuut... it's meant for Serato. And Serato apparently -hates- AMD processors, which is what I have. They say if you want flawless performance, switch to a Mac, or go Intel, but I don't want to have to do that. Traktor -already- works on my AMD Win 7 64 bit rig and I'm already used to its layout. Plus, Serato seems to completely -lack- any of the really in depth settings that Traktor has in the preference and settings menus.

    My question is, how many years is it going to take before NI actively pursues compatibility with the NS7 hardware? What's the real hurdle keeping NI from working with Numark to try and achieve official compatibility with this tech instead of freelancers like DJ Quartz taking his own time out to try and find a solution? Or does Traktor not want to make any effort to give users the option of using the NS7 because it might cut into the number of people buying their own hardware like the S4? Don't get me wrong, I see the kinds of stuff that people like DJ KnuX do on the S4, and yeah, I'm a fan. J-Core, Speedcore, Gamer-Core, the stuff with the Midi Fighters and finger drumming and skitters, that's all good.


    But I want the life, the spin, the physical reaction of the motor against my fingers' slight pressure, hard pressure and everything in between. I don't want to just do clubby housey ravey stuff and just mix, I want to -scratch- and I want to feel the kick back from the motor and its release. This right here... that may as well -be- actual vinyl.

    If I watch this and then go to DJ Jazzy Jeff's 'real' set on 'real' tech,
    I really don't hear that much difference!

    Now of course, someone will say "Well, if that's what you want, go get a 'real' rig," Right... go buy some huge, expensive heavy as hell turntables and a big ole brick of a mixer to go in the middle and get some timecoded disc and be prepared to have to replace your needles more often than a heroin addict. The NS7 and future products like it are going to leave that kind of hassle in the past with blowing on NES cartridges and getting the grey screen of doom (emulators don't get grey screen and roms never die unless you delete 'em). The whole landscape is going to change, maybe not immediately, but others -will- bite Numark's ideas and other manufacturers are going to see how big of a step having those moving platters is.

    I really hope that N.I. is listening. I would really like to see you guys try to achieve compatibility with the NS7 / NS7II. Maybe even have some features added into Traktor geared towards the Mark 2. I mean, imagine having Traktor itself have 16 sample fields that you could just drop a wave file of a drum slice or whatever into and just hit those Akai pads? How can you look at the NSII and -not- see potential for change and adaptation?

    Now another thing I've read is that the reason why work arounds like Quartz's aren't reliable is because Serato has proprietary tech as far as having the NS7's platters and the software synchronized. I don't see how that can be, when Traktor seems to work fine for DJs who use timecoded vinyl rigs. Surely there can be -some- way that Traktor can be tweaked to make it treat that motorized platter on the NS7 like it were a time code being spun on a 'real' rig?

    Please do -something- other than either telling us "no" or nothing at all....
  2. makar1

    makar1 Forum Member

    NI will never develop proper support for a Serato controller for obvious reasons. Your only options are to make use of whatever MIDI functions a controller has and map manually, or change your hardware.

    Denon make CD players with moving platters that will work fine in Traktor.
  3. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Oh come on, if Quartz can get it -semi- close to working,
    surely N.I. themselves could get it even further....


    Poor Quartz, he put so much effort into trying to make the NS7 work
    with Traktor and he didn't even get so much as a thank you or a "ok,
    we'll take it from here" http://serato.com/forum/discussion/234231
  4. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member


    5 pages of comments and N.I. still doesn't even give the courtesy of leaving a response of 'yes' - 'no' or 'maybe' ? Jeeze.

    Is this thread gunna get locked down, too? And I don't really buy that "it can't be done" / "Serato had Numark put proprietary stuff in there so it wouldn't work as well with anything else" - if N.I. really buckled down, got their software people working with the NS7 and figuring its ins and outs, I'm certain they could make it work. They probably just don't -want- to, because it's not one of -their- hardwares. In that case, hope N.I. comes out with something -as good- as the NS7 in the future, which probably won't be any time soon. (But trust, stuff like the NS7 / NS7 II are gunna change the whole landscape of Midi DJ devices. I don't think it's entirely fair for a company mostly invested in software to get mad at people using their applications with someone else's hardware instead of theirs. That's like if Nintendo had a hissy fit at Capcom for licensing Street Fighter 2 and Mega Man Collection to Sega for the Genesis - Oh noes, now those people won't buy an SNES! How -dare- you Capcom!).
  5. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    you may have noticed that this is the user forum. some NI staff reads here sometimes (not regularly and not logged in) but that's all. for a feature request please fill out the support form. only this way feature requests can be tracked correctly and therefore weighted, e.g.
  6. makar1

    makar1 Forum Member

    It's a Serato branded controller which is the reason native support will never happen. You don't see the people at Serato adding support for the Kontrol S4 do you?

    At least Traktor supports the use of any MIDI controller, whereas Serato requires that a licenced piece of hardware is connected at all times.

    Have a look at the Denon SC 3900s. Those paired with a proper hardware mixer will easily beat out an NS7, and work great with Traktor.
  7. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Hmmmm.... looking.


    So $999.99 for -one- deck, plus cost of mixer,
    when the NS7 is -slightly- above that price and comes
    with the two platters and the mixer (and the effects knobs
    -and- those awesome Akai pads if you get the NS7 II) built
    into one nice, considerably smaller package?

    I'll wait for the NS7 II and I'll wait for decent
    support from Native Instruments.

    Also, if the Denon can work with Traktor as well as you say,
    (with the platters having spot on vinyl-like response) then what
    excuse is there for the NS7 not working? What does the Denon
    have in it that lets it work properly with Traktor that cannot be
    replicated and done for the NS7? If Quartz can spend his own
    time and effort making a mapping to make the NS7 work on
    Traktor at least halfway good, why can't N.I. step in and make
    it work even better? I thought Numark and N.I. were buds?
  8. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    You mean this?

    Okay, thanks for that at least...
    I will do that. Perhaps the others who
    posted on Quartz' old thread should have
    also done that too, then maybe they wouldn't
    have gotten ignored... sucks to think that had
    those guys sent their request to product support
    instead of piling comments onto a forum, we might
    have already had official NS7 support for TPS by now.
  9. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator


    actually, i doubt. but the official support form is at least a way to track the amount of ppl wanting (or complaining about) this and that. therefore i always recommend that.
  10. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    ♥ = broken... u.u

    "I don't use the NI forum anymore, it's a Komplete waste of time (see what I did there?). Essentially, HID support for 3rd party devices boils down to this: Pay a lot of money or it won't happen. Pioneer has a lot of money, that's why the Nexus players are supported. It stands to reason that Numark - being one of the leading controller manufacturers - does as well, but apparently they're not willing to make the expense and choose to rely on what Serato will bring to the game instead. The NS7 mk II isn't going to support Traktor and I'm sorry to be so blunt, but we are entirely powerless to change that as users." -- Traenq

    I really -don't- want to believe that.
    But I guess, such is business...
  11. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Straight from the Numark horse's mouth on Serato's own forums in a thread
    that DJ Quartz posted to promote his Traktor workarounds for the NS7.

    "Hi, the NS7 is a midi controller and soundcard for any application.
    We offer open support to any software company wishing to support it.

    For more information on when the controller is to be supported contact your
    software provider or alternatively you could create your own map if your
    software supports midi learn." --
    Sbangs (Simon Bangs), Numark rep.

    Doesn't sound like a company that's "too in bed with Serato to cooperate with
    other companies." Sounds more like all that really needs to happen is just some
    communication between N.I. and Numark, and all of that "Serato won't let them
    let Traktor work with it because they got a 'deal' going" line is a buncha malarky.

    From what I've been reading, it would seem like the ball fell more into N.I.'s court and
    instead of picking it up and playing, they kicked it into traffic and went the hell home.

    http://djworx.com/traktor-pro-2-6-hits-the-streets-whats-new/ - In the comments section.

    From 'The_KLH' : "Ummm... NI doesn't need the NS7 and V7 to be supported in TP/TSP. Numark should have worked with NI to make that happen AS NUMARK STATED THEY'D DO PRIOR TO THE NS7 LAUNCH. (Looking for the YT vid. Will edit with the link.) EDIT: I can't find it, must've been pulled from YT. I distinctly recalling seeing a Numark rep stating that the NS7 would support ITCH AND Traktor... while he was NEXT TO a Serato rep."

    From 'El Tiburon' : "You are correct, KLH. Numark should have worked that out with Traktor and from what I've read on forum they tried. Traktor said no because they were releasing the S4 at the time and didn't want the NS7 and V7 to compete. In the meantime, Denon found a work around for their motorized plastic platters, called Hybrid mode, for Traktor. So for two years, the Numark motorized controller gets no love from Native Instruments because they are scared the Numark Decks will become the industry standard and replace the 1200's. Regardless of the politics, users just want Traktor support for the NS7 and V7. Native Instruments could easily implement this and make folks who already own their software and have to use an audio card with the NS7 and V7 as a work around, very happy. They have thousands of users who have requested this support, yet they refuse."

    From 'El Tiburon'
    : "What Development effort? DJ quartz had most of both decks mapped using Midi but knew that without Native support for the decks, it just wouldn't work. Numark develop something and demonstrated it to DJ Quartz that showed what the decks working Natively could do. It was NI that said no to native support. No conspiracy, an online search or asking DJ Quartz can easily prove this. Again, if Traktor is superior to Virtual DJ, why can't they support the best built Midi Controller for Turntabalist if they want that market. I'm a Traktor user and it kills me to know that I can't use my Numark decks with my software of choice. I've read all the forums, even contacted NI to ask that they support the decks only to be given some lame excuses. There are thousands of NS7 and V7 users who want Traktor to support these decks natively. These are the closest decks to replacing Technic 1200's for Midi controllers.

    They are good enough for DMC champions to use on stage, why not support them? How difficult can it be for a Native Instruments programmer to do what DJ Quartz and Virtual DJ have done but allow the decks part to work Natively in Traktor? Gizmo posted a great article about the perfect midi controller and many of his points fit much of the check marks that the NS7 and V7 tick. We don't want excuses, we just want our software of choice to work with our equipment of choice. I believe that if Native Instruments offered native support for the Numark decks, not only would these decks become standard for Turntabalist but more DJ's would switch over to Traktor. Folks have proven in the past that this can be done, Denon did it and their motorized decks work with Traktor.

    N.I. needs to do the logical thing and support these decks natively to show that their software is the superior choice for Turntabalist. Do this in the next month and this will take away some of the shine that Serato DJ is bringing. A happy customer is a loyal customer."

    ^I have to agree... I feel like a dog who is having a steak on a string dangled in front of his face. "Here's this really awesome hardware formed straight from your dreams. And here's this software you know and love that works great on your rig, but oh yeah, you can't use them with each other the way you want so go ahead and go buy Serato instead which doesn't like your AMD platform. BUWAHAHAHA... sad? Good! Now let me feast on your tears, Scott Tenorman! Hmm, yes, that was great chili, huh?"
  12. mastermc

    mastermc NI Product Owner

  13. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Yeah, yeah "TL;DR" and "Cool Story, Bro."
  14. Brad G.

    Brad G. NI Product Owner

    I gave up waiting for support for the NS7. Sold it and got the NS6 mapped tightly with Traktor. I really do miss my platters Numark would do well to make an overlay for Traktor on both the NS7 and the newest. I would gladly bite the financial bullet and go back if they supported them. In fairness to Serato though they have done well to get rid of some of my biggest complaints with them with Open Midi Mapping and better Effects. In all honesty if you really have to have those platters then I would give Serato a try if NI doesn't support it. As much as I don't like their choice to not support the NS7, it is still "their" choice. It is a business and not a democracy. They are allowed to make the choices they want and I am sure they have considered the cost.
  15. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Guess I'll just have to hold out hope that Quartz or another like him with the same determination and skill will eventually find a solid solution. (Looked here like he got pretty damn close to getting it functional, but then he's also having to use an ancient version of Traktor to facilitate his work around, too) - http://www.facebook.com/?ref=home#!/video/video.php?v=10150184416155065) At which point, it won't matter whether or not -N.I.- wants people to use the NS7 with Traktor, because they will anyway. : p (and seeing as how it might bring people -back- to Traktor -from- Serato, I can't really see how that would be a 'bad' thing).

    I saw a video of the various packs of effects you can download (hmm, now there's an idea, N.I., hint-hint) and
    I was impressed that they have pretty much all the same effects as TSP and beyond. Buuuut, there's that whole
    matter of Serato's software not being friendly to the AMD platform.
  16. Ghost_On_Da_Maschine

    Ghost_On_Da_Maschine NI Product Owner

    Funny how some people see this as a NI problem.

    You want resolution talk to Numark and tell them to make a Traktor version of the NS7II and call it the NS7T.

    If they weren't in bed with Serato they would have already done so.
    Nothing wrong with them working with Serato since that still provides a large base of customers just stop trying to make it sound like a NI problem when it isn't.

    What this really means is it's a controller that can be mapped cause we don't want to pay and we try to divert your attention by saying contact your software company.
    All the while knowing that it's our job to add support for the software not the other way around.
    It's no different than RTAS or AAX with PT, you pay to play with Avid.

    As for the Denon 3900s you can easily get a pair for $1200-1400, which is a pretty good deal if you have ever touched them.
  17. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    Watch this and then tell me more about how "it can't happen."


    If N.I. got on board and -pursued- this, it would happen...

    Quartz: The Jogs are not actually HID, all controls are midi. What is needed is for Traktor to support the extra timestamp the jog uses. The jog sends data at 400 x faster than normal midi to give the real precise feel. It uses a time stamp to show where the motor is at any given time. This is the information I was given today, so it's the extra information that Traktor needs to understand. It's sad to think that there is maybe a whole 2 - 4 assignments that is holding you guys back from being able to do this. And it's all midi to add insult to injury at that.

    djJonkrause: We really aren't blaming NI for anything other than ignoring its users. This interface that Numark built is amazing! Whether it's the NS7 or the V7 - it's the best and probably only platter of it's kind. It's the benchmark. So it stands to reason that we all just want the best software to work with the best hardware. NI should be flattered that we are all jumping up and down like spoiled brats. "We want our software"! Our frustration stems from the fact that the midi menu in Traktor lacks only about 10 options that would make these controllers fully functional. Quartz even has a beta version that is fully functional if I understand correctly.
  18. makar1

    makar1 Forum Member

    It can't happen.

    The technical specs are completely irrelevant. Nothing is holding NI back from adding support besides the fact that the NS7 is not a dedicated Traktor controller (i.e. licensing fees), and is instead designed specifically for Serato.
  19. t0t4l_n3wb

    t0t4l_n3wb Forum Member

    So I guess -this- was just a clever ruse to get us to leave them alone and "wait it out."


    Oh and when they said they had an NS7 working with Traktor as early as '09,
    that must have been a lie as well. Nope, never happened! Vidz or gtfo, right?


    Btw, this new "update" to the forum is nice looking and all,
    but I can't go back and edit my posts to fix the Youtube videos.
    And posting the embed code does nothing... hmm, intentional?
    Guess they didn't like seeing so much of that snazzy new NS7 II.


    Maybe Quartz will get one and start working on some new TSI's for a workaround.
  20. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

    The forum is undergoing changes. It is not finished yet.