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NAMM Traktor Announcement - News Now Available

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR SCRATCH' started by PhilL, Jan 18, 2007.

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  1. Play

    Play NI Product Owner

    Personally I like the new card. Big plus for the usb lock/hook. Eliminates the possibility on one end at least.

    As a Traktor 3 owner and FS2 owner I have near $800 in it already. Not too thrilled about spending another $450 and having to give up my SA2. Maybe someone will by my FS2 for around $400. That would be much better!

    I think Traktor is really moving forward with the new features in Scratch. Also, I am sure there are many other things to be introduced in near future updates. Plus the Audio 8 is going to be great for every DJ, turntable control or not.

    What if you have 2 of the 3 requirements for crossgrade? No difference I'm sure.

    Also, if Stanton is going "FinalScratch OPEN" and allowing nearly any software to be compatable with the SA2... Why not still Traktor?

    I think I will still stick with NI though... they seem to be headed in the right direction.
  2. nem0nic

    nem0nic Forum Member

    NI isn't responsible for your pain now, Stanton is. Stanton should have done something to try and make the product work. Instead they gave their users the finger.

    Take your plea to them. Stanton wanted total seperation, so make them responsible for their mistake.
  3. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

    I think people will come around as they start to realize the benefit of the NI platform.

    Especially with T3 suppport, it will be a VERY powerful package.
  4. iconlite

    iconlite NI Product Owner

    After reading this entire thread, I still feel I can't find the answer to my question. I am a registered owner of Traktor 3 (full version) and currently use the FS2 as my interface. Maybe I'm dumb, but my question is:

    What is the correct solution for full version owners of Traktor 3, that want to use the new NI timecode with CD control? What package are we to purchase or use? Must we buy the Audio 8 upgrade package, and does it comes with the control CD's?

    This announcement, at least for me, has been very difficult to understand as an owner of your product.
  5. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    Ya know what I reckon... This is about as self centered a piece of prose as I have seen in some time.
    Your argument is not about the fact that NI have done you wrong, because they haven't! Stanton did the damage, and you know for damn sure you can't get them to come to the party and update you in fashion you desire so its easier to be a bloody victim and try to get NI to feel sorry for you, to try to weasel a cheap upgrade because you're too tight to pay for that which you know deep down you really do have to pay for.

    At the end of the day NI have done the right thing by FS2 users. You bought a Stanton product and to see the way Stanton have behaved in supporting you, I think, is downright bloody embarrassing. Whats a bloody sight more embarrassing though is to read the rants pleading entitlement 'just coz' you own a Stanton product. As I said earlier "Stanton does not equal Native Instruments".
    Your case is directly analogous to demanding a replacement 2007 Mazda 6 because your 2004 Ford Fiesta has been superceeded.
    I'm sorry to say we do NOT do free lunches here, I suggest you quit making excuses for why you feel you're entitled and work out how within the next 2 months to get your ducks in a row to buy the upgrade on the level as you should. You may well be entitled to a published upgrade, but no where does it say you are or should be entitled, to a free upgrade.....


  6. PhilL

    PhilL Moderator Moderator

    @iconlite I think i know the right answer, but I will ask the powers that be and conform for you as several people have asked and the answer so far continues to raise questions.
  7. mal1ce

    mal1ce NI Product Owner

    After thinking about the closed vs open system a bit more I had a thought.
    Since most of us are in agreement that the closed system is a better solution for reliability and support, it really twists my head trying to figure out what Stanton was thinking with Open.
    There were enough issues and going back and forth when it was just NI and Stanton supporting the product, god only knows what kind of nightmare it's going to be with Stanton and multiple developers now that the SDK is out there.
    I dunno, I'm thinking nem0nic has it right, they have got to be abandoning FS...because if not, it seems like they just shot themselves in the foot.

    Now consider the fact that NI has improved the time code engine, created an interface that supports all 4 decks, and not lied about what was going on, ala Stanton ("yes there will be a T3") and I feel safe that this is the way forward. Sure it's going to cost some more $$ to make the transition, but if it gets me reliability thats ok with me.

    Finally, for the people who are complaining about "more new hardware to buy", lets not forget that this digital DJ'ing market is still relatively young. IMO, we are still in the "growing pains" stage of the technology. Couple that with Moores Law and we are slightly behind the curve on new hardware. If I have my timeline right, FS 1 was released in '99, eight years ago. That means that if we adhered to Moores Law, we should be on our fifth hardware interface.

    I dunno...just some stuff I've been thinking about....ymmv
  8. iconlite

    iconlite NI Product Owner


    Thank you very much for your help. I will definitely be waiting for the correct answer, and upgrade solution from you. I don't mind paying for an upgrade, but I just want to make sure that current, full version Traktor 3 users are offered the correct upgrade package and discounted price, if one is being developed.

    Just so there is no confusion, I want to continue to use the full version of Traktor 3 (not Traktor Scratch), but gain the use of the new NI timecode, via the use of control CD's. I guess for my application, it would have to include the Audio 8 interface, and control CD's.
  9. Technokrat

    Technokrat NI Product Owner

    OK, here's one more thought: If I chose to upgrade from FS2 to the new NI controller for 400 Euro, do I get to keep my FS2? After all, that's how Software updates work, more often than not you're allowed to legally run the updated version alongside your old version.

    If that's the case I think its' a fair deal. If I have to send in my FS2, I have to ask another question: What use does NI have for a Stanton product?
  10. spiritouk

    spiritouk Forum Member

    I am sorry Phil to burst your bubble, but I am sure I speak for nearly everyone here...We didnt buy a Stanton product we bought the Front end which was built by NI (i.e. the software) the SA2 was part of the package but our decision to buy was made on the software that allowed us vinyl control with the reputation of an N.I. product we already knew.Yes we know that the SA2 part was made by Stanton. but its useless without the software side unless only used as a soundcard..we made our choice based on the software and its the software that has now let us all down, regardless of whether Stanton pulled the plug or NI. The software is whats now at fault which has always been NI's responsibility in the agreement.
    N.I. has to stand up and offer a better solution to a lot of very pissed off users without having to shell out vast amounts of cash.
    If SA2 is now open source how can Stanton stop N.I. from using there own timecodes and offer a far cheaper solution for Traktor users to continue to use there already expensively bought scratchamps
    Please dont insult our intelligence and tell us N.I. made nothing already out of FS2.
  11. Dj Hobbes

    Dj Hobbes NI Product Owner

    To put it simply, FS was, is, and always has been a Stanton product. The fact that you bought it because of the NI portion of it was your and many others' choice. Stanton counted on that very thing to sell a Stanton product.

    We did not know that Stanton was gonna do this "open" thing, as well as we were not expecting the legal letter stating that NI was no longer allowed to support the SA2 as a scratch input device. NI was in fact developing their own audio interface for Traktor Scratch, but NI had every intention of also supporting the Scratch Amp. As soon as we heard this announcement today, we were extremely pissed off and could not believe that they would pull a stunt like this. Now if you cannot understand or comprehend this, then that is your own damn problem, and I have no regrets telling you to eff off. If you really think that NI was out to get you, then go buy some other scratch solution and whine to them.

    I am not new to these forums as I am one of the original members and users of Traktor. I stopped helping out in these forums out of frustration because of Stanton and FS users who wanted to place blame solely on NI for all problems. Now that Stanton no longer has any say in the future of this, I am back and I will not take any of this sh*t any longer!

    Now, if you want to listen as to why and how all of this **** went down, we have absolutely no problem in explaining it to you if you are actually willing to listen.

  12. tonydarcy

    tonydarcy NI Product Owner

    Where was the groundbreaking announcement that everyone hyped up so much! I spent ages thinking what the next revoultion in djing would be, like they'd add video djing to traktor or something and maybe vst plugins! There is no benefit of this audio 8 thing over fs2, saying that im quite happy with the way fs2 and traktor 3 are working at the moment, im just kinda pissed that it was hyped up so much by native on the board here, who was going to be impressed by that? Somebody actually said it was as big a breakthrough as the original final scratch!
    And where is this "final solution" that was planned for fs2 users?
  13. loadammo

    loadammo NI Product Owner

    Yeah, because the Kore worked out so great. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. The buttons on my Kore are crappier than on any piece of hardware I have including my DVD remote. I get bluescreen after bluescreen with its drivers.. I calm myself by chanting "Massive cost me $300, Massive cost me $300, Massive cost me $300".

    I'd like to say there's no way in hell that you could get me to purchase additional NI hardware, but I suspect I'll probably get screwed into it by FinalScratch hardware support being dropped. And if by any stretch of your imagination you could call NI's customer service useful.. I waited 2 weeks for a response to my "Can't activate!" ticket..

    As a customer who has spent more than $4k over the years on NI stuff, I cannot help but feel more and more disrespected as time goes on. In general I love the NI software, but to me the whole point of NI is the software, which doesn't (most likely) make them as much money as hardware can.

    So whoever realized this and started pushing NI in the direction of making hardware has good business sense for pure dollar making process, but NI is steadily losing its heart and soul.

    The point of virtual instruments is that we can GET RID of hardware. I'm sure you guys are DSP gods but for christs sake, the Kore is such a substandard turd I hope whoever project managed it gets shot out of a cannon into the moon.

    I don't mean to hate on NI, but STICK TO WHAT YOU'RE GOOD AT and I'll keep spending money. How many goddamn external sound cards do I need?

    I apologize for my non-sensical rant, but I've had a lot of nerd rage building up on this subject -- I was super pumped for some great news coming out of NAMM and this is an unprecedented letdown. I'm more excited about Vestax's VSI-100, hell, I'm more excited about what I had for lunch today.

    What a shame. Can't wait to pay $200 for the Traktor upgrade.. God I'm a tool.

    p.s. laffo on Stanton letting finalscratch.com expire.. Looks like they knew this was coming..

    Record last updated on 04-Sep-2006.
    Record expires on 08-Jan-2007.
  14. djnitehawk

    djnitehawk NI Product Owner

    welcome back dj hobbes and thank you for figuring out the acpi thing...

    i was pretty dissapointed when i found out that finalscratch is now dead, cos its only been about 2 months since ive bought my SA2.

    now, im probably gonna get slammed by everyone for saying this, but i dont give a ish...

    the truth of the matter is, what's happened has happened. it doesnt matter who did what & why. there's no point in whinning about it...

    if you want the best god damn dj software on earth (traktor3) & a rock solid DVS (djaudio8) for controlling it, ur gonna have to dish out some more cash to get it...

    im just thankful that NI is offering a discounted price for existing users.

    and i dont care whether NI is being fair or not... i understand that it is a business and without profits, how can they stay a business and bring us the goodies?

    i just hope that the audio8 system has fixed the problems of FS2 and that it is more responsive than FS2.

    i would buy the new unit just bcos of the following:

    1. self powered usb (no more SA power adapter, and usb is a lot less flimsy than FW connection - physically *my opinion*)

    2. the simplified connection leads

    3. high resolution timecode (which i think would give better response)

    so anyhow... the lesson learnt is this...

    never buy anything that has a stanton label on it. cos they just dont take care of their customers.

    so NI, here's my money... now give me the goods :) cos i just cant stand the sight of serato :)

    -nitehawk... ovr n out...
  15. nik39

    nik39 NI Product Owner

    Re: Announcing The Native Instruments Audio 8 DJ

    No offense phil, but we all know that this support was very little. The support staff NI hired for FS support was inadequate. That guy had a poor english, that guy (you know who I am talking about) was incompetent. NI didnt do any good job either in this case. Thats a fact.

    Well.. I dont know who was responsible for it, but *I* paid NI for software upgrades, which were supposed to fix bugs, which didnt work out and I then upgraded to FS2. But in the first case I paid NI and things didnt work out. That to answer your question.
  16. tonydarcy

    tonydarcy NI Product Owner

    I agree with nik39, in my experience it proved traktor to be unstable rather that the scratch amp or drivers, there were lots of bugs never fixed, the effects being the biggest one for me, which was an acknowledged problem by ni months ago but never fixed. A lot of people giving out about stantons supports but basically i think traktor is to blame due to the amount of bugs each version had had. I can definietly see serato taking over the market now, why would anyone choose the Traktor Scratch option over ssl? No benefits at all and it will have no track record. Really expected something new but maudio torq has more features than this NI thing.
  17. Technokrat

    Technokrat NI Product Owner

    And costs about half as much as the new Traktor Scratch/Audio 8 combo.
  18. spiritouk

    spiritouk Forum Member

    Hobbes I find your response down right rude and offensive and as a long standing member of this community i would expect better of you.

    However that aside, perhaps someone can answer this:- if SA2 is now open source, what is to stop NI supporting in Traktor as vinyl control if every other software developer under the sun can?
  19. djkee

    djkee NI Product Owner

    Yes it is Stanton's fault. Stanton didn't like the fact that NI was developing their own interface for Traktor with more inputs. Stanton also didn't like that Traktor is bundled with all of their competitors' MIDI/USB DJ Controllers, especially since Stanton didn't have one of their own. They got jealous and left their customers out in the cold. A crappy, petty thing to do.

    BUT, the question should not be about NI doing the right thing for their customers when Stanton is the one who left them in the cold.... the question should be whether NI wants to keep those Traktor customers who prefer vinyl control and had also previously purchased the only hardware available to do so.

    I for one, am on the fence. I have been waiting to buy T3 once NI fixes the Native Mix problems, adds vinyl control for 3-4 decks and comes up with a visual interface that actually works for vinyl DJs. Some of these points have been fixed and after hearing the newly announced product, it appears NI will be working on the others. It is an encouraging sign, but still not enough.

    As I said, this is NI's chance to play the "hero". It is up to them to do it or not to do it. I am not demanding or expecting, I am requesting.

    If there was a timecode record, dongle and Traktor Scratch software solution for around $300, I'd be likely to buy it in the next 3 months (and if I liked it, buy the hardware and upgrade to full version of T3 in another 3-6 months).

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Traktor Scratch software that comes with the AudioDJ8 only has 2 decks. So Traktor Scratch is perfect for use with the old ScratchAmps (FS 1 & 2), as well as hardware interfaces for RME, SSL, Connectiv and Numark's Virtual Vinyl . If NI had a open ended competitive crossgrade with a dongle/timecode/Traktor Scratch software for a lower pricepoint, it gives users of other DVS solutions a chance to try it out and see if they really like it. If this solution is only enabled to work with Traktor Scratch software as opposed to the full version of T3, then they will need to upgrade to T3 and AudioDJ8 if they want the full feature set, including 4 decks, etc. So give people a chance to take a test drive and see how good the timecode, effects, filters, Time-stretching and EQs are... if they are truly superior, the no brainer choice is going to be to upgrade to T3 and AudioDJ8.

    Without any option like this I'll likely buy a cheaper DVS product from a competitor and wait 12 months or more to re-evaluate to see if NI is improving and supporting the software and see what kind of feedback I've heard on the timecode and hardware.

    So no demands or expectation of you, NI. Do what you're gonna do. If you want me to buy any of the Traktor products in the next 12 months, add in a mid-range solution. Otherwise, expect me to come back and see you in 12 months and reevaluate the products at that time.
  20. djdivide

    djdivide NI Product Owner


    Firstly, M-Audio is NOT a Traktor-comparable release. Anyone who has used it will tell you it is buggy, that the hardware is cheap, and that it is more akin to FS2 than Traktor 3 full.

    Secondly, the Audio8 DJ is a new soundcard, priced at $399 eu, with loads of ins and outs – what is so bad about that? It is very well thought out, and priced to compete against all the top line soundcards.

    Thirdly, how Stanton / NI have conducted themselves in the past is more the result of the partnership than of any bad company practice – anyone who understands the diffusion of responsibility concept will see that this would have happened anytime you have two companies responsible for anything – any problems result in finger pointing before fixes.

    Lastly, the future for Traktor is brighter now than before – NI has made a commitment to the software by going to the time and expense of designing their own hardware. This gives them a system to work with for the future to enable them to carry on where the SA2 / Traktor setup left off. If they wanted to, they could retreat from the hardware side of things but I would imagine that the reason that they have built their own is that there is nothing on the market currently that meets their demands.

    Guys – for non-FS2 users, the Audio 8 is a great soundcard. For SA2 owners – how long do you think it will be before someone takes the time to build and sell a small SA2 Traktor Patch? If I were Stanton, I’d commission it myself to enable me to shift more SA2’s. It’s a good card, and they will want as big a market share as possible.

    This audio 8, I suspect, here to stay. Think about it – how many 8 output soundcards are there on the market for this price?

    It is what we need, and although I can understand SA2 users feelings (I have an SA1 – imagine the pain!), you must all see that this is a complete solution, not the hobbling together of other peoples gear.

    Well done NI on product design, lets see how it actually works…
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