New Update to Kontakt 5.4.1 won't run W7 64bit

Discussion in 'KONTAKT' started by DevonPete, Sep 16, 2014.

  1. DevonPete

    DevonPete Forum Member

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    I thought I would bump this with an update. This issue still remains unresolved.
    I did get a reply from NI Support with this message:
    "This is for Win7.
    Go to C: folder
    Open Organize>Folder and search options
    Then go to View tab and turn on Show hidden files, folders, or drives
    Then go to ProgramData and right click PackageCache and open Properties
    Go to Security tab and edit Permissions to allow Full control"


    I followed the instructions and after a reboot tried another install of Kontakt 5.4.1 again without success.
    So I remain unable to update any of NI products because of this. I replied back to Support but as yet, have received no further help.

    If anyone can provide any suggestions I would be most grateful. Thanks.
     
  2. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    19,479
    Try uninstalling Kontakt (don't need to remove the factory library, then install it again, then install the update?
     
  3. DevonPete

    DevonPete Forum Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion ED. Uninstalled Kontakt, re-installed from original Komplete 9 activated through Servicecenter and installed update 5.4.1. same error message "MSVCP120.dll missing from computer".

    Updated/downgraded to 5.3.1 -- back to as it was. At least 5.3.1. works properly. I tried the Battery update awhile ago and got the same error message with that, had to roll back. It's since NI have now included Visual C++ Redistributable Packages for Visual Studio 2013 that is the issue here I'm afraid. Until that everything was hunky dory.

    Without some suggestions from NI on this matter I'm totally stuck with this problem now it seems.

    Not very happy about this.
     
  4. b-righteous

    b-righteous Moderator Moderator

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    Curious, do you also have the previous 2012 redistributable?
     
  5. EvilDragon

    EvilDragon Moderator Moderator

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    19,479
    Redistributable is not the issue if you have it installed. Have it installed if you don't. :)
     
  6. DevonPete

    DevonPete Forum Member

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    Here's a screengrab of all the Visual C's installed on my machine. Visual C installed.JPG
     
  7. b-righteous

    b-righteous Moderator Moderator

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    9,673
    Since it seems you you have them properly installed, I also don't believe the redistributable is the issue. Sounds more like Antivirus or firewall related.
     
  8. UltimateOutsider

    UltimateOutsider NI Product Owner

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    Here's a potential snag. Other NI products have apparently required the 32-bit versions of the redistributables, at least during install time. Installing the x64 Redist package does not (as far as I know) give you the 32-bit files. Adding to the confusion is that the 64-bit files and 32-bit files have identical filenames, but must be installed in separate folders.

    32-bit files go in %windir%\SysWOW64
    64-bit files go in %windir%\System32

    Microsoft couldn't have come up with a more confusing folder naming construct but there you have it.

    If you have the two directories side by side, you can see that the 64-bit versions are larger in file size than the 32-bit ones.

    [​IMG]

    EDIT: Anyway, my point is, give the 32-bit runtime installers a shot. And also have a look in your SysWOW64 and System32 folders and make sure you don't have the bitness mixed up; the 64-bit versions are always at least a little bit bigger.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
  9. DevonPete

    DevonPete Forum Member

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    Thanks very much indeed UltimateOutsider for the wonderful clear and concise posting above.

    Several things. I discovered I had no msvcp.120.dll in both folders! (I thought I had downloaded them and placed them correctly but they were msvcr120.dll's which I have since removed). So I downloaded 32bit and 64bit msvcp120.dll's and placed them in the correct folders as you clearly indicated. Attempting to run Kontakt 5.4.1 produced this error message.

    Error Kontakt.JPG

    From a bit of research this is a 32/64 bit issue (from what I can gather). I have a feeling we're heading in the right direction here somehow.

    Anyway I switched the 32 and 64 bits dlls between folders and re-booted and got the same error message above.

    Right now I'm rolling back to 5.3.1 (which works) as I need to get on with some creative work again and come back to this later some time. Thanks for the help.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  10. DevonPete

    DevonPete Forum Member

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    Eventually got it sorted and have now applied all the recent updates. Everything working properly at last. It was a Windows permission problem creating "access denied", and also placing the correct .dll files in the right folders once the permissions had been changed. Why is Windows so complicated? Oh for a simple, basic OS without all this BLOAT.

    Thanks for the help guys, much appreciated.
     
  11. rocketmorton

    rocketmorton New Member

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    Hey DevonPete, can you please elaborate on how you fixed this? I'm experiencing the exact same problem and would love to know what permissions to change to get it to work.
     
  12. DevonPete

    DevonPete Forum Member

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    I tried so many things I can't actually remember now I'm very sorry to say. I've only just read your post here as I'm reporting another issue with Kontakt I'm experienceing. The solution involved downloading the individual dll files and placing them in the correct Windows folders through trial and error. I had to somehow get the correct permission thing sorted to do this, which again was trial and error. I'm sorry I can't be more specific. I was frantically working on this over many many days, trying everything I could to resolve it. Good luck.
     
  13. rocketmorton

    rocketmorton New Member

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    Word is that the problem is resolved if you update to Windows 7 SP1, but I'm unable to do that. I don't want to be stuck on 5.3.1 forever. Did NI say that SP1 is now required? Or did they make a compatibility mistake with the 5.4.1 and above releases? Am I screwed?
     
  14. Freddie H

    Freddie H NI Product Owner

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    Zero problem here! The update installer worked the first time on both Windows 7 x64 and Windows 8.1 x64. By the way, the latest version is called V5.4.3.307.



    Best Regards
    Freddie
     
  15. Freddie H

    Freddie H NI Product Owner

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    Just for a start, it pretty obvious that you have disable windows AERO, right? That's just one of perhaps many wrong settings that might explain your issues you having.
    AERO need to be ON since Windows VISTA so turn it on.


    Best Regards
    Freddie
     
  16. DevonPete

    DevonPete Forum Member

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    Hi Freddie. Thanks for your reply. Yes I have AERO turned "off" and have done for several years. I'm intrigued as to why I need to enable AERO to resolve these issues? I have just enabled it to see what happens.

    Just a very brief explanation would suffice and be appreciated. Thanks.
     
  17. Freddie H

    Freddie H NI Product Owner

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    I hope my guide will help you and answer all your questions.

    I have made a Windows Optimizations-guide working with DAWs and plugins that has all the right and valid information, how to setup computers running windows system. Many have no real knowledge about this and there are tons of websites on the Internet state all kinds of bad advice and tweaks that often are counter productive instead of fixing anything.


    I hope my guide will help you and answer some of your questions you might have.

    AERO on Windows VISTA, Windows 7 Windows 8.1, Windows 10 - OS-X Cocoa Frameworks

    AERO need to be ON to direct all graphic processing to use graphic card -GPU instead of the CPU.
    You don't want to use the CPU for the graphic representation in windows. Today, there are non benefits to disable AERO, just the opposite.
    Any visual you see in windows are 3D,2D, API calls, GDI and DirectX and Windows programs/ apps include DAWs use your graphic card to run all 3D, 2D, API calls, GDI and DirectX visual acceleration in windows that are then connected to windows visual and graphical representations called AERO.

    All graphical representation in windows is handle 100% by the GPU and the RAM on board of the graphic card when AERO is turned on. If you turn AERO OFF, all graphic visual get directed to the CPU again. (old behavior). Today that doesn't work because graphical visual in windows are programed and based on AERO and direct API calls, resulting in errors working with Windows, DAWs and other programs if you have AERO turn OFF.


    API-graphical calls

    So what is API calls? There are important technology included in Windows AERO interface that are very important part of windows interface. There are direct connections to the graphical representations that is called direct API calls. Developer use direct API-calls in example Cubase and other programs and the API-support is available in the form of the Windows Software Development Kit (SDK). SDK providing documentation and tools necessary to build software based upon the Windows API-calls that are associated to the Windows interface. Microsoft has provided the DirectX set of APIs as part of every Windows since Windows 95.

    DSP coding will just increase every day so we will see more GPU based coding and add of more functions to the audio plugins use the GPU processing in example Cubase and Native Instruments in the near future. So it can be good idea to invest in a better graphic card without going crazy. In fact already today many 3 part manufactories base all their GUI code and API calls around AERO. This is true since Windows Vista and GPU processing and directed to the GPU and API-calls are used on both Windows VISTA 7 / 8.1, Windows 10 and OS-X, Linux and Ubuntu . On OS-X you can't disable their coca framework (Open-GL) and that is a good thing. I hope Microsoft will do the same and take away the legacy option so you can't disable AERO in the near future.


    Windows XP background - History.

    On Windows 95, 98 and XP all graphic were directed to the CPU only. On XP and older systems, windows and programs graphical representation and processing were directed to the CPU not the GPU on the graphic card.

    There for it was recommend to use as so low graphic as possible because it took away CPU resources from the DAW programs and plugins. Its because all the programs, plugins and windows graphical interface shared the CPU. Today that old legacy behavior and operation is history.




    About Process scheduler on XP to "background task".

    This old tweak must be the most confused tweak since XP windows.
    That tweak has been used and abused since Matthias Carsten at RME come up with this great
    tweak on XP only.

    It was meant to be used with specific RME hardware on XP platform only to provide better low latency from 23ms to 3ms.
    Even Mattias Carsten that is the original founder of this tweak say as I do and Microsoft and all the tech Gurus in the world say the same thing; ---> on VISTA, Windows 7,Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 it should be set to PROGRAM.

    Audio or ASIO are not a background task in windows.


    MIDI

    Some people ask if MIDI is a background task? No, its not a background task either.
    Its a real time operation. MIDI messages are made up of 8-bit words, and are transmitted serially at a rate of 31.25 kbaud.



    POWER Schema

    POWER Schema shall always be set on "Performance-mode" even for Laptop. Check in "Device manger" manually. Make sure in "Power-management" on all USB port isn't set to sleep/disable.




    BIOS

    Disable all Speed step, C-wait and Sleep.
    Hyperthreading shall be set to =ON
    Turbo Mode can be ON as default. In some rare cases you can turn Turbo mode off.



    UAC-User Account Control


    You can go ahead and disable that in Windows VISTA, Windows 7 and Windows 8.1. In Windows 8.1 its no needed as in Windows 8.1 has another kernel core protection further down inside the core base that has stronger protections against bad code then UAC.



    Windows hibernation

    Windows hibernation can be a good idea to take away to free up space especially if you use SSD on /C: Windows.
    Check the Internet how to do that.






    Core parking on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1

    Disable core parking can be a good idea on some systems. This is advance operation require "reg-edit" operation so if you have no experience with systems you can mess up your system completely. On Windows 8.1 its much easier. check the Internet how to do that.
    http://forum.cakewalk.com/Windows-7-amp ... 61804.aspx




    Best Regards
    Freddie
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2015
  18. Freddie H

    Freddie H NI Product Owner

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    275
  19. DevonPete

    DevonPete Forum Member

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    Thanks Freddie that's very clear and helpful. All the main settings for DAW use you suggest have been applied a long time ago except for enabling AERO interface. I was alway under the impression, from what I read years ago now, that AERO fancy display was a bit of resource hog... BTW I have a decent 2GB video card so plenty of clout available.

    One other thing: I have always changed the "let windows manage swap file" for a dedicated continuous section of clusters on the windows hard drive (I can't remember what size it is now, about double the Ram amount, so say 20Gigs for example.) AFAIK this prevents fragmentation and can speed up disk access and I've seen no reason to change back to the default (let windows manage....). Any comments you wish to add on this would be welcome.

    I'm sure many others will find your comments above most helpful.

    Thanks.
     
  20. Freddie H

    Freddie H NI Product Owner

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    275
    Virtual Memory -" page sys"- settings are also one area that very confusion for many users. I will add that to my guide to.

    Virtual Memory -" page sys"- settings.

    You'll receive many different opinions on how to deal with the page-file. Some will say that you should completely disable it. Their logic goes that Windows is inefficient at using the page-file, and if you have plenty of memory you should just disable it since RAM is a lot faster than traditional hard drives. By disabling Virtual Memory, you are forcing Windows to use the RAM instead of the disk. The only problem is that windows Virtual memory and page-sys functionality doesn't work like that. Because Windows will never page-sys the applications you are currently working with anyway so it will not make your computer performance any faster by disabling the page-sys.

    What can happen instead is that your apps are going to start crashing, since there's no virtual memory for Windows to allocate. And even worse, your system will crash or become very unstable.


    So what settings and how to proceed?
    On Windows VISTA, Windows 7, Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 or later, let windows mange your Virtual memory regardless how many gigs of RAM you have installed. I have 32GB RAM myself. Let Windows manage your Virtual Memory - page Sys-file on "C: drive"- only. Do not use any extra partition for page sys either.
    If you have more then one harddrive installed in your system, set all other drives then "C:" to "None" page sys-file. You only need one.


    On windows XP only, it can be good to manage your page-sys file yourself. Set virtual memory to X1,5 times the RAM installed in the computer. Set the same value of both Max and Minimum. But these settings are only for Windows XP.



    Best Regards
    Freddie