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NI is going to subscribtion based payment model. What do you think?

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Tomess, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    6,846
    Spekwerk That made a lot of sense.
    I never really considered that Hardware+Software subscription possibility could be an option until you said it just now, interesting... (in a sense of not paying the 600$ for the controller)
    I don't think its possible though, at least in a sense of not paying the initial 600$, what would happen if the user cancels his subscription, changes credit card, closes his bank account? Does he get a free valuable hardware? Sounds very exploitable.

    If that was possible then subscriptions could actually be cool.
    I wouldn't mind subscribing to an expensive modular analog synth at 10$ a month :D
     
  2. Spekwerk

    Spekwerk NI Product Owner

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    276
    Haha, yeah I wouldn't mind that either. I wasn't actually suggesting they make you subscribe to the hardware though. I was simply stating that if they were to charge $10/mo for a subscription to the software, that's $600 after 5 years. If you want a new controller every 5 years, and they still charge $600 for the controller - even if it doesn't come with the Maschine software anymore - they are essentially making $1,200 every 5 years at that point.

    Whereas now, you pay $600 for the controller AND the software, and if you choose to upgrade in 5 years, unless there's been a major Maschine update that requires a nominal update fee, you've still only spent roughly $600, not $1,200.
     
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  3. ntula

    ntula NI Product Owner

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    2,158
    i alwasy just considered maschine software to be the device OS regardless of it being host on a computer.... so it is part of the hardware and has no value separate.
     
  4. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,640
    nor does it seem to have affected piracy really

    The worrying thing for me was how much Daniel held up Adobe as they way forward citing that it somehow made the products more affordable which is very debatable as the cheaper (comparatively not absolutely) options are only if you go for an annual subscription, The whole video bordered dangerously close to a sense of self belief bordering on hubris especially as they seem to think that people would give over material that should see a return without properly showing what that return would be.. Spotify is not a good example to quote.
     
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  5. toneyrome

    toneyrome NI Product Owner

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    220

    No one has any info. Its all speculation. The only subscription any of you are aware of is sounds.com.
     
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  6. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    6,846
    I'm not the one that brought piracy into this conversation, I only said NI definitively is not as pirated as other more popular stuff, therefore is not really that much of a problem like it is for other companies who only have one DAW and sell no/not as much hardware. To be honest I rather not even talk about piracy here, its irrelevant to the discussion.

    Let's be real, Daniel looks up to Adobe from a business perspective, like I would if I was a CEO. Hell, i look up to Steve Jobs and many others just for their business ideas... If a new business plan makes more money in the long run and offers something in return to some customers than it's a win-win I guess, but you need to sell that new model to your customers, "Making the resources more affordable" "Democratizing Music creation" are just slogans to sell that idea, his job is to make sure the company is as successful as possible.

    Current customers aren't really interested in subscriptions, (as we can clearly see in this thread lol) we are here because we can afford stuff, subscriptions are aimed towards new customers that can't afford full price, so in theory, a lot more people come on board and expend their dollars.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  7. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,640
    On the other hand I look up to Vebjørn Tandberg but bearing in mind what happened to him maybe that's not so great from a business perspective LOL (love the original products though). I welcome any win win scenario which I sincerely hope is the case forward for NI. Making it easy for 'non musicians' to do stuff can only get my full backing if that is genuinely the case but there is a worrying sense of maximising profits at all costs regardless that jars.

    No problem with subscriptions as long as they are optional. Again the fact that they are not and quickly became so for Adobe frightens me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. OhulahanBass

    OhulahanBass NI Product Owner

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    231
    Sounds.com was his 1st point. His 3rd point was that they have already begun the transition to “software as a service.”

    Beyond that it is speculation. I’m not saying that says there is reason for alarm but I think people are reasonable to be a bit nervous.

    You kind of can, I’ve been tempted to trick my mind in: “if you pay off that ampeg tube rig you don’t really need with sweetwater’s 2 year financing its only $x/month, not the same as dropping couple grand right?” I haven’t fallen for it yet but man am I tempted.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 8, 2018
  9. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,269
    I use GIMP, PAINT.NET and CS2, it's free. My last bought copy of Photoshop and Illustrator was just before the subscription model arrived.

    Anyway I jumped on the last version of KU because it was fairly cheap and wanted Reaktor 6. I shall have more control over myself next time, making it a subscription won't even require willpower to avoid, I simply won't even lift a finger to upgrade and take my business elsewhere.

    When it comes to sequencers and samplers I want something that has bog standard reliable functionality, with all the standard features everybody would expect.... and refine them so workflow becomes feels nice and simple. Innovation and integration with other products whilst nice is very much second place, software should be simple above all else and not spaghetti.... Sadly shiny pasta overload is the way of NI.

    I will be taking my business to companies that behave in a "workflow and reliability first, and then refine refine refine" manner, actually most of them do nowadays I notice.... even the ones that didn't before. I'm off to learn Ableton 10 ... maybe I'll find it there then.
     
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  10. mezzurias

    mezzurias NI Product Owner

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    2,398
    NO
     
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  11. CakeAlexS

    CakeAlexS NI Product Owner

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    5,269
    NO,
    NO NO NO NO
    NO NO NO NO
    NO NO
    There's no limits?
     
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  12. mezzurias

    mezzurias NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    2,398
    Right now I have absolutely no reason buy into a sub and nothing NI does will change that. if at some point NI becomes dicks and decide that OS updates will be tied to the sub I will literally remove all of their crap from my machine that very day. I don't want, need or will ever pay for sub model for software that I've outright paid for, for a better part of decade. Never going to happen.

    Everyone out there is trying to take our ownership of things away. They dangle promises of frequent updates, and better pricing (which it usually works out to more in the long run). How did that work out for Adobe customers? The software is still crap and Photoshop hasn't actually done any interesting updates in a while. Adobe Premiere is buggy as all get out, and Illustrator and friends have been lounging, but Adobe keeps collecting those monthly fees from users and they keep paying because they have no choice. Please people vote with your wallet and don't let NI remove your choice of ownership. The only way to stop them is to not buy into this.

    So, NO!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Ghost_On_Da_Maschine

    Ghost_On_Da_Maschine NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,570
    Not the same, it would only be the same if at the end of the 2 year window Sweetwater still owned the Ampeg Tube Rig instead of you.

    Subscription is just a shorted sighted mentality, it's the classic rent to own with out the "to own" ability.
    As long as people can talk themselves into believing that it's a deal more companies are going to offer it as it makes for great profit margins.
    They are basically selling you an idea instead of a product so it has fewer true cost.

    We currently live in a world where there is very little understanding of value or getting your money's worth, they are more concerned with the idea of the latest and greatest.
    Everything you see makes you believe that's what's important so as with most things people accept anything that allows them to purchase things they can't afford or that they feel makes them look like they have more than they do.

    This whole thread is just guessing but remember one thing, what if NI adds the desired features, fixes the bugs and makes 3.0 subscription only.
    Then what?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

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    2,276
    People will buy it. Even if they don't agree with subscription imo.
     
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  15. Ghost_On_Da_Maschine

    Ghost_On_Da_Maschine NI Product Owner

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    1,570
    Nah, NI will find out that people can live with the MPC Software, LIVE, Logic, FL Studio etc.

    While the concept of Maschine is still incredible they would have to add some much needed features to get most users to buy into the rent me game.
    They would more than likely cause most user to freeze in time but that would only be a band-aid since most still feel lots of features are missing which would mean they have to move to something else to achieve their desired workflow.

    The worse thing about the video was that he was up there talking like what he was saying was positive and groundbreaking.
    Just made it seem more like he didn't have a clue.
    It's probably the worst time to be thinking that way, just to name a few things.
    Akai seems to have finally gotten their foot out the toilet.
    Ableton has finally gotten strong integration with a hardware controller of their own.
    Studio One has a mix surface and really is a hardware company so what's next from them?
    More and more people are finding it comfortable to work in FL Studio.
    Roland seems determined to get into the DJ controller market so they are probably working on their own software.
    Pioneer seems determined to rule the DJ world.
    Denon is trying hard to get a leg up.

    With all this going on your concern is sounds and software subscriptions.
    WOW!
     
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  16. rulgert ghostalker

    rulgert ghostalker NI Product Owner

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    402
    there are allot of legit cranks with the licence concept here....this thread is really going off.

    i can rez with almost every gripe here too....i really like my NI gear, and maybe that's partly the thing... like someone is trying to take that away, especially when it's already paid for.....

    it's the damn software pirates, that's what it is....i don't understand how people can be like that, think of what any one of those "pieces of gear" would cost if it was actual hardware < that's what i suffered...like they can't even manage to compensate the developers ?

    i am probably going to buy the Mod Pak before i bail, and i do hope NI goes with an iLok option vs. some horrid rental system....i am out anyway, and primarily because i don't want to chase the operating system and computer hardware carrot anymore....and that's primarily the same reason i would bail out on the licence, even if my operating system wasn't near term.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  17. OhulahanBass

    OhulahanBass NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    231
    Oh we agree. You can ignore my comment, it was a cheeky comment in response to another cheeky comment.
     
  18. rulgert ghostalker

    rulgert ghostalker NI Product Owner

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    402
    i am actually Terrified of this licence thing...like Oh ****, when is this going to happen ?
     
  19. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

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    2,276
    Wtih many investing a lot in Komplete, maschine and Traktor I don’t think it’s going to be that easy for people to just walk away like that. Plenty have already explored other options but decided that Maschine works best for them. Some came right back. Either or it’s hard to say anybody won’t be on board because it hasn’t happened or we don’t that it’s going to happen. Me personally I am fine with sounds.com subscription. If the rest went like that, hard to say for myself because I don’t know what the offering would be.

    About Presonus. They are working on integrating melodyne 2 into S1 currently.
     
  20. skinswashdc

    skinswashdc Well-Known Member

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    2,276
    Hey man. No official word about something like this happening. It might just be an alternative down the line for some users.
     
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