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October 2019 message from Native Instruments

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Paul Jeszenszky, Oct 31, 2019.

  1. Paul Jeszenszky

    Paul Jeszenszky NI Team NI Team


    In my post last month I said I would be looking to follow up with all of you on a regular basis, aiming for the end of October for my next post. So here it is.

    Subscription continues to be a hot topic with all of you understandably, so I’d like to share a few key updates. Subscription in any large scale, meaningful way will not launch in 2020. At this point in time, we are not planning on removing ongoing or “perpetual” licenses (eg. the way you purchase our software today). We currently see this sitting alongside Rent To Own and Subscription as different ways to purchase our products. This could change based on user response. At the end of the day, we will do what makes the most sense for both our users and our business. Obviously, the two are highly connected and you will cast your votes with your wallets.

    As I’ve said previously, we are committed to bringing in user requests and we’ll prove this over time. For those who are interested in Massive X, we’ve just released V1.1 with the following community requested features:
    • Dark and light themes
    • Flat themes, which increase compatibility with older graphic cards
    • Animated Envelopes
    Please keep sharing your feedback so we can shape Massive X together with you as we work on future updates.

    Recently we announced Traktor Kontrol S3 and I’m reading comments on it not being the product you wanted. The S3 was developed based on significant feedback we received from the market after launching the S4MK3. Specifically, we were asked for a lower cost controller that was more in-line with the price point of the S4 MK2.

    The Traktor Kontrol S3 was designed with those users in mind who want to start out with 4-channel DJing. We acknowledge this is a specific type of user and there are others, for example here in our forum, who have not been waiting for this product.

    More generally, the Traktor team is closely following this forum and is committed to delivering the features you want. In the Traktor section of the forum you can participate in the ongoing Public Beta of Traktor Pro 3.3.0, which allows you to be in direct contact with the development team and help shape the future of Traktor.

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  2. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

    Thanks for the update
  3. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

    Reaktor 6 users need snapshot saveable front panel patching in ensembles.
  4. Dirk L.

    Dirk L. New Member

    Sorry Paul, but in the good old (and as it seems "good new") Native Instruments tradition, this is again just some cheap Marketing/PR blabla.
    "Subscription in any large scale, meaningful way will not launch in 2020": this means anything and nothing at the same time.
    The more you claim you are listening to us (the users), the more you are releasing products nobody seem to want (see S3).
    It can not be so difficult though, can it???
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  5. dj_estrela

    dj_estrela NI Product Owner

    Thanks for the update Paul.
    Much appreciated the Traktor focus, especially because it was not even mentioned on the first message last month.

    There are hundreds of feature requests in this forum. I just offered my opinion to the dev team: the quickest features that could be delivered should be prioritised.

    In my view these would be just making more copies of already exiting features. I’m talking about more variables/conditions in mapping, and more FX units.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
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  6. Dj Kad

    Dj Kad NI Product Owner

    If you notice that probably because we are waiting other stuff, and this is in contrast with this
    There is a difference between "read passively a forum" and "follow people considering eventually advices and ideas"

    I leave here my wishlist with some questions included
    1) A new audio8/10. Why they are discontinued?
    2) A a pair of single deck controllers like the fake J1 (i'm sure that you have seen that) Why and what stop NI to build that? You should create a Poll so you can see how many people wish a controller like that....basically a D2 with jog
    3) Additional parameters in the command line for loading a track in a specific deck: (for example: traktor.exe test.mp3 -A). I'm a dev and it takes neither one hour to implement that. Contact me in private if you want to know why i need that
    4) Hid support for 3rd party controllers
    5) Json format for midi mapping instead that ancient xml
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  7. Brian J.

    Brian J. NI Product Owner

    This is the typical example of a damage control corporate speech.. Bullshh! You obviously don’t care what we want. Otherwise you would have already released 4 channel mixer>>jog deck controller>> 4 deck X1>> HID support for the XDJ 1000 MK2 in no particular order. The writing is on the wall for YEARS and yet you cherry picked the feedback(S4 mk3 being too expensive) that allows to make the most revenue with the least effort(R&D).

    You went pioneer-style on this one. You cut down core features(NO DECK FX?!!) that people actually use on an existing design in order to minimize cost and maximize profit.

    Now on the last point that the “developers are following closesly this forums” and “help shape the future of Traktor” I call bullshh one more time!

    We told you countless time what we want(smart playlist, retina support, flexible beargrids just to name a few) and you ALWAYS ignored our requests! Why should we believe you now??!

    Anyway Paul, keep the bedtime stories for children next time. Don’t tell them to adults with business degrees..
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  8. Odyseuss

    Odyseuss New Member

    Hello NI!

    I dont hit the forum here too often. Just there was a link today in another german facebook Forum. But im suprised how similar the wishes of users here and in other non offical NI Forums are and how greatly they are ignored by Native instruments. Where is the D2 MK2 with Jogs? where is the Z4? where is the new browser with better library capabilites? where is the better midi mapping? where are flexible beatgrids? The market share of Traktor crashed down to earth in the last 5 years. Me as a long time user and a guy who has spent well around 5K in Native Instruments products and aquirred basically all Traktor Products ever published - I feel totally disrespected as a client and as a part of a big and "easy to understand" marketgroup. I love my Traktor in general and the modularity. right now after 7 years the S8 is still the top notch controller in your portofolio. All the USP`s u had you canceled in the new productline. (big screens, seperate midi zone control (S8/D2) , 4ch transportability S5/S4 (handluggage), modularity. The software is stable but the browser looks like from 10 years ago (and it basically is exactly that). Then you still sell the S8 as ur most costly actual DJ Controller for 1200,- with a mapping thats not even updated to TP3 and a manual that is from ages ago - somebody should pay for that 7 year old controller basically the same price as at the release? really? in a market where basically every 6 month is out something new? and generations change every year latest every 2? and then you even dont have 1 person working 1 month to update the manual of your most expensive product to a "kind of" acutual content status? (same for the Z2 here) The only reason i didnt change the platform yet is that im 1. too used to Traktor 2. praying and hanging around that a D2 MK2 is coming or anything else we want. im working in the online marketing and sometimes i really sit down at home and wonder whats going on in the Traktor department in the NI Office. And what are you eating there to do what you did since the 100$ overpriced release of the first great D2. Honestly i feel like you try to work against the user and maybe there is a insurance paid out when you finally brought Traktor down to a market share of under 10%. I want something of the cake you get there that makes you believe you listen to the majority of your users.... If you need somebody to turn the ship around - just give me a call... put probably its too late. really sad. I decided to work a last season with Traktor and see what happens and if you are not able to find a mix between fullfilling the wishes of your clients and deliver innovative and modern products as you once did im out after 15 years or something. Several times i filled surveys from you - there was never a reaction. your phone service (Berlin office) was horrible often about waiting times or simply not reachable - now you simply canceled any phone line... also kind of a solution - better no service then a bad one right?. I could go on forever... just wake up and take your last chance and stop to tell us - and more important - stop to tell yourself fairytales...
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
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  9. andyfoz

    andyfoz NI Product Owner

    Paul if subscriptions are coming (for working dj's), and you keep mentioning it, then just tell us and get on with it, if traktors going to cost me £3 a month then so be it, but you better make damb sure all the features are there that are missing.

    i see algoriddim Djay pro is $4 a month but that includes the Behemoth streaming platform spotify - you better have the goodies ready if your going in that direction.

    after that is done and im paying a subscrition i would expect to be able to use any hardware i choose from any manufacturer, if Algoriddim Djay can support the ddj1000 etc so can traktor.

    if you could get an ipad/android running traktor dj2 between the denon sc5000m/xdj1000 mk2 that would be something amazing and portable.

    really though, Traktors future lays in the mobile/wedding/bar and small night club situations. The super club and superstar dj market is sewn up just forget that now. Extremely powerful and portable gear is what we want coupled with modern functions like streaming and smart playlists. If we ever do get to play that super club an x1/J1 mk3 fits in amoungst the pioneer set up without being to obnoxious. Know your place in the market.

    get your finger out old chap........................
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  10. sndrsklr

    sndrsklr NI Product Owner

    A lot of negativity here but to be honest I can´t blame anyone letting off some steam here and the NI managment definitely deserves the rough feedback. NI used to be a very innovative company, let´s not forget that they pathed a lot of ways that are considered standard in a lot of our everyday tools for music production/digital DJing so kudos to everyone involved developing those plattforms in the beginning. But there are countless examples of "used to be innovative" companies that thought they don´t have to follow trends but instead continue creating them to just find themselves trimmed down to a local niche company or end up forgotten completely. This is undoubtedly a turning point for NI and let´s hope they´ll be able to turn that ship around before it wrecks completely.

    I have the feeling that a lot of people who were responsible for most of the innovative NI products have left the company a long time ago. We as regular customers usually don´t take notice of people leaving unless there is a massive layoff like a few weeks ago or in key postions. And if the remaining people who have forward thinking ideas or would like to implement long time requests get pushed back by managment decisions then you´ve created a rather toxic work environment.

    Traktor is starting fresh with the cross-platform version and will take a long time to catch up to its predecessor so I basically stopped following it since I´m a DVS user and what I take from all this marketing speech bubbles is also what is not being mentioned: new tools/functions for DVS users. Obviously controllers have been the main focus for a long time so at this point with the layoffs and everything I´m sure there will be nothing new coming for this (small) market at all. A new Z2 has been requested for a very long time and there were ideas for it but we know the rest. And just opening up the software for all soundcards after excluding every other manufacturer for years and just hoping someone else will just release mappings for the huge amount of controllers out there and that the other companies will offer support for it... well, I consider this an asshole move to be honest. I ended up buying the Rane72 mixer and using Serato since. Definitely not spending hours on creating such a complex mapping for Traktor when I can just use it right out the box just with a different software that does its job as well just in a (slightly) different way.

    When it comes to Maschine it looks a little better than with Traktor but even there countless requests have been ignored for years. And we´re not talking about some super nerdy special features here. And on top of that: functions have been officially promised and then got burried in silence/ignorance when people asked about it (let´s call it the Song mode disaster). Even though I have a Maschine and I never went super deep into it but still ran into issues a lot of times and when you feel creative but have to deal with software issues that´s basically the mood killer number one for me. That´s why I´m selling my Maschine and Komplete stuff and try other options. The Maschine controller itself is amazing though.

    And when it comes to Komplete it seems like the only important thing is sample libraries (and expansions for Maschine)... every year the new Komplete version gets less and less exciting. And NI´s standing in the iOS market is basically none existent. The iMaschine app can only be considered a little toy at this point (they did a better job with Traktor iOS), no update in years and very basic feature set. And absolutely nothing for iOS from the Komplete selection. No interest in trying to port some of their tools onto iOS which is a ever growing market and the possibilities for creative sound design here are insane. No flagship synth, no FX, no additional tools (like remote control or similar stuff), nothing... at least no communication about that either. It apparently has been more important to spend money on fancy VIP events (Traktor cooking, wtf?) and shooting promo videos with VIP´s instead of taking care of older products and rebuild them on a new foundation (modern code) for further development. When was the last real update for FM8, Absynth, Guitar Rig.... ? Besides updates for Komplete Kontrol that is.

    It would be a shame if NI went further downhill but since there are plenty of alternatives out there I don´t stress about it.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2019
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  11. SebMatte

    SebMatte New Member

    I'm just beginning at DJ. I've been looking at the dj ecosystem, Traktor, Serato, Rekordbox. The production features of traktor like remix decks and stems decks are really appealing, though the tech is stale in its development and unpopular. I'm getting my first controller today. That controller is a Denon mc4000 instead of a s2mk3 or other ones from NI.

    I would have liked an S3, 4 channels and all that, however I feel I cannot trust NI to release a controller that will work without major problems. The S8, S5 are no joggwheels and old old old. Also the customer support is abysmal. Also no Soundcloud integration to start learning without paying too much for a quality music library, no smart playlist, etc. Also the also pristine mc4000 will be less than 40% the price of the new S3 and compatible with more dj softwares, I'm not captive of Traktor.

    So I'm getting the Denon and a traktor upgrade licence from a friend who used to dj, and I'll get a used F1 to play with remix decks and stems, a bit. This way I'll be able to learn Serato at the same time.

    As a learning beginner, I might experiment more with Serato than Traktor because of the Soundcloud integration. I might also look into other production software than anything offered by NI.

    Advanced users are not happy with NI. Beginner users like me feels they cannot trust NI.

    Good luck?
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  12. Steve Mosher

    Steve Mosher NI Product Owner

    Subscription talk. Most hated thing I am encountering. Subscription sucks.
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  13. Pete B

    Pete B New Member

    Until the subscription issue is completely clarified I will be holding off spending anything more with NI.
    And if subscription only is the way forward then I will cut all ties.
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  14. alec.tron

    alec.tron NI Product Owner

    Fingers crossed...

    Paul Jeszenszky - Since having 'the Traktor team.... committed to delivering the features you want' is a tad unrealistic and far-fetched, (which even NI PR/Marketing needs to be realistic about imo and not promise the blue sky here....) - could we please talk about the top ~10 requested features - what the plan for these is and when these might come roughly - seeing that there is commitment apparently and I do appreciate direct & honest communication from the products' developers ?

    To give you a hand on this (which features that might be that we have been requesting for a decade plus, and which have largely been ignored [for whatever reason...] ), based on the old Beta / feature request forum, from the top of my head this would be:
    - elastic / flexible beatgrids
    - smart playlists (for which the next point is utterly important, i.e. the much mentioned library rewrite )
    - library rewrite (with many a feature:
    ------waveform preview column in browser (with cue points visible in preview - like Rekordbox...)
    ------multi-value metadata,
    ------custom metadata,
    ------metadata mapping (i.e. how rating is displayed with which values) & half stars for the rating column
    ------enhanced modal search delimiters/syntax)
    - streaming (for those who want it... I personally couldn't care less about this...)
    - XDJ-1000mk2 Support / HID
    - cue points metadata/notes/colours
    - preferences / midi learn overhaul - and/or: release NI approved mappings for popular 3rd party controllers...
    - unit testing as well as in-house beta testing, so basic issues are caught at NI, not by us users ( - i.e. the old diacritic letter / string formatting issue that has reared its' head multiple times over the last year, and is a perfect case for why unit-testing should be set up....)

    And in relation to recent products, and since this is meant to be the long awaited codebase overhaul of Traktor and it's been a bit lackluster still roughly a year after the initial release,
    - what about S4 mk3 support ? (the fact that the NI flagship controller was not given the 'MFi certification required to work on iOS devices', whereas S4 mk1 & mk2 as well as all cheaper controllers [s2 mk3 & s3] have this, boggles the mind, no ?)
    - itunes xml support
    - metadata sync / remote for Traktor / TDJ2 Desktop/PC

    Curious if we get any interaction here... again, fingers crossed.

    Last edited: Nov 24, 2019
  15. dj_estrela

    dj_estrela NI Product Owner

    Great summary of the top10 requests that appear over and over.
    Starting of course with elastic beatgrids.

    Only thing that I've missed is:
    - Advanced MIDI mapping: preferences window freeze, more than 8 modifiers, more than 2 conditions, more than 3 bits, global modifiers, 14-bit OUT messages
  16. alec.tron

    alec.tron NI Product Owner

    Aye, was part of:
    - preferences / midi learn overhaul
    as preference handling & mapping in Traktor is utterly painful, and unnecessarily time consuming...