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Okay do you respect producers that

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by certifiedbeatz, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    1,218
    I'm older so I just can't wrap my head around beat makers who use programs such as FL studio and others and draw beats and say your a beat maker.. I don't under stand it yes they find the key which is part of musical theory but were is the actual talent?
    Do you consider them an actual producer.. or just an arranger?
     
  2. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,186
    i see them just as beat makers who have fun, that is part of all the new technology and stuff.

    But they are not producers or something, literally everybody can make a beat today but to make a whole and interesting, good song is not that easy.
    But maybe in the future AIs will also do that from start to finish, and then is the question is that music\art? Or generative\conceptual stuff - is that music\art?
    Really interesting questions

    Uwe
     
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  3. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,839
    I don't give a flying anglo saxon what someone calls themselves or what they use if something resonates it resonates if it doesn't it doesn't but I'm one of those geriatric things...............:D
     
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  4. JesterMgee

    JesterMgee NI Product Owner

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    2,304
    I say let them eat cake!

    It's the same chesnut that anyone who produces within the box isn't a musician, or if you aren't a music theory expert then you can't be a composer, or using a preset or a loop iks a lack of skill. End of the day it makes no real difference or hurts anyone what someone wants to call themselves. Like someone who calls themselves a chef where they only use a microwave, let the food do the talking.

    I tend not to judge or draw a conclusion too quick because I have a good memory of my youth and recall some of the trash I created and was proud of at the time but I was also using music as a way to keep myself sane as I grew up and dealt with life's problems and when I managed to make something my friends actually liked and wanted to listen too that made me feel pretty good and gave me something to focus on when I was feeling a bit low.

    If someone kid is in their bedroom and wants to drag a few loops into a sequencer, press play and happily say they are a "producer" i'm happy enough for them to not be out on the street with a drug addiction, killing someone or killing themselves. Seen far too much of all of that and would much rather see a kid happy to feel good enough to give themselves a title. I don't have to like it or understand it, that's why things have off switches and I can walk into another room. :)
     
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  5. telecode101

    telecode101 NI Product Owner

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    466
    i see them as a "producer" and not an "arranger". to me, an "arranger" is someone who works on orchestral arrangement on string arrangement. just my view on it. [1]

    i believe the label "producer" has changed in the last 20 or so years. In the past people like Todd Rundgren or Mutt Lang were music producers. And they worked in a music industry with tools and musicians that were very different than the present environment.

    Its sort of like if you think historically about store owners. there was a time when store owners were very affluent members of society. they were merchants and they were very different than most other regular men who worked labor intensive jobs and owned nothing. store owners owned their own stores and houses and usually also owned a lot of the adjacent building near their stores and were landlords. the role of the store owner has changed in the present.

    Anyways, as far at FL Studio and who uses it and what music they make. It really all depends on the person and what they are doing with it. Some of the early pioneering hiphop artists also didn't know to play instruments or music theory and they sampled parts of pre-recorded records -- but its whart they created in the end and how they were able to make social statements and social commentary with the music they created with those sampled beats is what matters in the end.

    AS far as FL, i think it gets a bad rap from the more traditionally minded music creators. Its always important to use the right tool for the job. FL Studio as a tool in itself is actually really good. It pretty much has all the midi and audio wave file capturing and manipulation functionality of other DAWs. Where I find FL Studio excels is -- perhaps because its sort of geared towards bedroom producers, is if you work solitary ( meaning you are not recording 4 piece rock bands in a recording studio) and you work on a laptop, the workflow and navigation is lightning fast. The tab and escape keys and shortcuts allow you to move around between the different panels in the application while at full screen on a laptop and you can move and nudge midi notes in once panel and switch to the tracking panel and adjust volume and pan levels in seconds. Its pretty neat.

    [1] https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/arranging-strings-part-1
     
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  6. v00d00ppl

    v00d00ppl NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    173
    It all depends’ but at the end of the day can we get the same result?

    I’m used to working on xoxo boxes so drawing out beats is easy on a DAW. I will do things in real time too just to give it a humanized feel.

    FL gets a bad rap due to the trap scene. I’m sure either all of my Maschine / mpc / and live experience I can make bangers on it and you can’t tell what daw I’m using. Because what matters most is my play style right?
     
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  7. BigPictureSound

    BigPictureSound NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    221
    Producer and talent in my opinion are two different things. I consider a producer to be anyone who is able to make money from sound/music design.

    As for talent, whether the method is drawing notes, recording midi data from a controller, or recording everything live- if the end-result sounds good, then they've got talent.

    I hate music theory, but love making music so I find tools to help me overcome my own limitations. In fact, I believe that knowing too much music theory can sap some of the creativity and spontaneity out of the creation process.

    Just my two cents, of course :)
     
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  8. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

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    1,218
    No I get it .. back in the day when I bought my MPC3000 from daddy's junkie music in boston alot of people thought it was a fad a true musician played live.. I can play instruments and love the fact you can program buy rhythm and sequencing not drawing and googling.. but this is the future.. I have done alot of beat battles in my day I would love to battle anyone who draws beats.. to me it just show u really created the groove not let the software dictate everything..
     
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  9. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,839
    But it's up to you how much you let that happen and how many of us have come up with something good 'by accident' because we screwed up or whatever. Just recognising something has having resonance can be an underestimated asset.
     
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  10. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,218
    Do u record in a studio with producers? I do they come in extract there stems and and I ask them.. so really look on line any industry producer in hiphop draws. Yea they know the chord but can they lay down a drum track on maschine or MPC.. no way possible
     
  11. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    8,233
    I personally dont see any relation between how someone inputs MIDI and their skill level or if their worthy of a "producer" title.
    A MIDI keyboard, Pads, a Mouse/keyboard or some sort of step-sequencer are just tools... the tools dont define the artist, the art does imo.

    I might give some extra credits to someone who can perform while creating, whether that means playing instruments or finger drum stuff in but I personally value the end result more. The Draw method is the easiest way to get into music-making nowadays, since everyone already owns a laptop, it changed how the music sounds for better or worst.

    Simon Servida is a popular youtube producer, he has pretty good keyboard skills but also 'draws' midi a lot of the time like it's typical for FL users so there is some middle ground. Andrew Huang is sort of the same story but with chopping loops/audio and arranging with the mouse in Live.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  12. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,839
    But if the end result 'works' does that really matter?. People do what they can with what they can and if what they do doesn't work for you it's not going to work however they did it or what they call themselves. The good thing is (at least sometimes) when people make themselves out to be rather more than most think is apt you can have a giggle and point and laugh...............................( waves to Gemma Collins et al).:oops:
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  13. SM313

    SM313 NI Product Owner

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    25
    A producer can make a track without even having to touch a single keyboard or drum machine. We're all programmers and musicians. Until its time to make a song. Just because someone draws midi doesn't make them no different than someone playing keys. Notes still have to be played and played correctly. It doesn't matter how you come up with the music. As long as its great at the end of the day.
     
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  14. SM313

    SM313 NI Product Owner

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    25
    Theres no right or wrong method to making music. I respect talent.
     
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  15. certifiedbeatz

    certifiedbeatz NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,218
    Okay great replies so why do u own any hardware..or controllers.. then.. if u feel no way and I can just get a laptop and make a better beat then u and say I own it. And I'm a beat maker and u keep hitting the keys and bads to make a beat so why make the investment when there none
     
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  16. Uwe303

    Uwe303 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    5,186
    For me it is the process also, the jamming and quick creating with maschine is pure joy, I can't have that intense without maschine, the groove if I record it myself the automation recorded not painted(I of course pant also) . But if someone can make something good with a laptop, why not.

    Uwe
     
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  17. SM313

    SM313 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    25
    I started in the days of Adat, keyboards and drum machines. There were no computers for me to use except for the one running Protools in the studio. So I come from that. I too had my issues with beat makers using FL Studio to "program" beats. but after some time I started using Geist, well at the time Guru and started learning about step sequencing. See when youre playing with youre hands its going to move in the same repetitive motion. Even if you play different things its still going to move in the same way.. When I started step sequencing I actually started to hear or rather see things differently. Again I was just like you until I really got a real idea of how it works. And personally it's fun.. Instead of knocking it before you try it.. you should spend some time learning how it works.. and see if you feel the same.. It opened up alot of doors creatively that I wouldn't thought of by "playing"
     
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  18. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,839
    I can play (well sort of...after a 'fashion') various instruments and sometimes do but I love and prefer pads and being able to play things against each other quickly and easily hence I have controllers. That's me ..it 'works' for me but others find ways that suit them. Some will hear something someone else has done and it will spark something in their imagination that takes it to another place. What's wrong with that?

    Beyonce had a global smash with Crazy In Love.which likely would in no way exist without The Chi-Lites "Are You My Woman (Tell Me So)" Many think that famous horn sample works even better in Crazy in Love but does the fact that it's a wholesale sample devalue it? I don't think so I think it's a brilliant re-use. If something works it works...................................... and it can often work more than once....hell arguably Snoop has made a whole career by thinking he's a figment of George Clinton's imagination :D
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  19. Kubrak

    Kubrak NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    104
    To my opinion, it is absolutely unimportant what means one uses to create music (or generally art). The only important thing is the result. Does the music touch (resonates with) at least some people? Or better many people? Or even better almost all people? If yes, than it is great. If not, than one should try to do something else....
    Great part of the music produced nowdays is the x-th of someone famous. It brings nothing new and beside that lacks the mood and resonance.
    It is the truth, that technology makes it easy for much more people to create "music", but that does not mean that some people do not make excellent music despite the fact they do not play any instrument and know anything about music theory. Some people have music in them and use the channel available to them.
     
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  20. mezzurias

    mezzurias NI Product Owner

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    2,401

    Does it matter? We can sit here and talk about how great we are cause we can play instruments but at the end of the day these people are making music and are getting paid. On top of that their music is popular. At this point it just sounds like sour grapes.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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