ReTraktor-Modular DJ Software/Reinventing the Digital DJ

Discussion in 'Feature Suggestions' started by TENMEN_DubstepDJ, Mar 4, 2009.

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  1. TENMEN_DubstepDJ

    TENMEN_DubstepDJ NI Product Owner

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    Ok, so there's so many requests out there for all these different things like customisable GUIs and more FX etc, so how about totally reinventing Traktor, NI?

    What about a form of Modular DJ software, that works in a similar way to Reaktor? I don't mean in the sense of building your Crossfader using mathematical equations and converting things to Radians etc, but a simple "panel" and "cabling" interface...

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    To put in basic terms for those who have no idea about Reaktor, you would typically ctrl-click/right click and select the module you want, e.g. for us DJs we would want "Deck A" and Deck A would appear in a panel (a big empty screen ready to be filled with modules e.g. things we'd use like FX, Decks, Recorders etc).

    You would then have at least 2 ports on this Deck that has magically appeared on your screen, Left and Right Out. After that, as a pure example, you would create an FX Unit, then click on the Left Out Port of the Deck and drag the mouse cursor over to the Left In Port of the FX Unit, much like how you would wire your gear up in reality.

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    You see where I'm going with this? Imagine the customisation options! Anyone familiar with Reaktor or Logic's Environment will know that anything can be adjusted to your desires, buttons and switches can be made to any size depending on what you need, you can name things, give them custom skins, even create your own button graphics as .png files and use them!

    The other thing to note is if Reaktor is anything to go by, your ReTraktor "rig" or "layout" would only limited by your CPU, obviously 4 Decks would have to be the maximum allowable as Traktor is doing an awful lot of number crunching speeding up/slowing down sample playback rates to give us our ability to beatmatch!

    It would also be great if Macros were part of ReTraktor, for example you had a "Mixer Macro", so you could customise exactly what features you wanted on just your mixer, lets say you wanted 3 crossfaders and 18 Low Kills (SILLY Example haha)...fine! Just create and plug!

    Thanks for reading all of this, if anyone from NI reads this then please post your thoughts, this is something I'd really like to see happen!

    p.s. I am completely unaware of any rival products, but I know that SS-Smell can't do this!
     
  2. Fresh519

    Fresh519 NI Product Owner

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    Great Idea!

    What's funny is I have seen and used a few VJ apps that allow you to work with modulars, and never once thought why is there not a DJ app that allows you to build your own dj setup.
     
  3. nomaad

    nomaad NI Product Owner

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    that would be sick. though i think its unlikely to happen anytime soon. at least from NI. i would move from traktor to a system like that, if it retained the useability of traktor once your modular rig was assembled.

    I just had a brief look at Reaktor... what about a DJ pack for Reaktor with Traktor-style decks? That's a peice of software I would buy.
     
  4. TENMEN_DubstepDJ

    TENMEN_DubstepDJ NI Product Owner

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    @nomaad

    Now that would be amazing! In fact, you could probably build an instrument for DJing in Reaktor, I seem to remember there was an "SRC" port on the Audio Player module (I forget the proper name, not used Reaktor in a while) so you could adjust the Sample Rate Clock which is essentially what Traktor uses to adjust the speed of the track.

    I will have a look on the Reaktor User Library to see if anything has been created already, because if it hasn't I think I have a new little project...will post my findings as an edit in this post.

    **EDIT**
    There is an ensemble on the User Library already but it looks to be an Internal Mixer affair, I use an External Mixer so that might cut out a bit of the maths for me if I decide to do it! Seriously, even a Crossfader can be reproduced with Maths! Not all heart and soul anymore now is it? :p
     
  5. BentoSan

    BentoSan Forum Member

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    +6,790,062,216 (the entire population of the earth)

    I have been thinking about this alot recently - having lots of predone objects would be great but id also like the ability to build our own objects too or edit existing oncs.

    The only real problem this i think would be the CPU usage of such a setup - some hardcoded objects would help combat this though.
     
  6. jesc1200

    jesc1200 Forum Member

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    +1 I've been wanting something like this for ages!
     
  7. tekki

    tekki New Member

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    +1

    Would lessen the demand of hooking up Traktor to Ableton if you'd ask me!
     
  8. Rudi-J

    Rudi-J NI Product Owner

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    +1 (and if some other company would launch it, it would cost NI some Share of Market)

    ...but (at least as far as the user interface is concerned) can't this approach - at least partly - be implemented already today by using the Jazzmutant Midi controller?
    http://www.jazzmutant.com/workshop_templateslist.php?id=traktorpro

    If you take the Jazzmutant approach to the extreme Traktor Pro would be a "Server-machine" (it doesn't even have to have a Monitor/ Keyboard) It just needs to compute MIDI commands and the (fully customized) Interface would completely run on the Jazzmutant.

    I don't know Jazzmutant so I don't know about its limitations, but maybe somebody can comment
     
  9. TENMEN_DubstepDJ

    TENMEN_DubstepDJ NI Product Owner

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    75

    Yeah you could be right about the CPU, but bear in mind by the time this would be done and ready (if ever) then minimum spec would be quite high I'd say, far within reach to all of us, but as you say hardcoded would be the way to go.

    I certainly wouldn't want it to be as detailed as Reaktor, thats not what the idea was about, but a really simplified version (dont know if any of you have looked at a Core Cell when it's unpacked but THAT'S A LOT OF MATHS!), so all your buttons and switches, Decks, EQ controls etc are already built, you just cable them up as you see fit.

    The other great thing about that is you could link all your FX through a proper Aux channel, as oppose to having the wet/dry controls (there is a difference), better control and sounds great! Even better, if you were to only use 2 Decks in ReTraktor you could send the Wet FX signal out of two channels of the Audio 8 and stick them in any Mixer Channel path (FX Loop etc)

    Grrrr we need this! If anyone read one of my earlier posts, I am at this very moment embarking on the Reaktor DJ Ensemble, it will probably go very wrong and I will go mad but it's worth a go, wish me luck...
     
  10. dj_sko

    dj_sko NI Product Owner

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    403
    Yes. But this just applies, when you are not using stuff like Key Lock. Otherwise you have to do some advanced real-time resampling of your digital audio which is what the guys from z-plane are doing all the time and is really not trivial if you want to yield good results.
     
  11. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

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    2,116
    +so much more

    I port traktor often. I use jack osx for this. I use traktor 3 I port it to garage band , ableton , guitar rig, pyrulator or http://thepatchlab.com/patch.php?id=324 something similar, for midi output..http://www.koen.smartelectronix.com/KTDrumTrigger/ I also experiment with contorlling traktor via ableton midi loops , to create a more templated output.

    Just having traktor 's existing audio bus opened up for taps would be nice utility. I also work with the NMX system alot and it is much like having a midi-file to control traktor's transport . I would like to be able to edit nmx files so they return very deliberate transport results and then create audio content from those actions to then feed to any number of circuits. Much like the clip envelopes in ableton but to control individual players in traktor. In this way a dynamically prepared audio file could be controlled by a repeated transport file or set of tranport commands to create consistant dynamic results with the audio.

    im hoping as maschine is developed further it will be integrated with traktor.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2009
  12. Karlos Santos

    Karlos Santos Rocket Man Moderator

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    11,980
    I have a feeling that DJ Tech Tools are ganging up like a pack of rabid dogs. arf arf :D
     
  13. tekki

    tekki New Member

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    Damn straight Karlos.

    If it's good ideas, we word 'em up! :D
     
  14. BentoSan

    BentoSan Forum Member

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    Will be seeing lots of Bento in this section from now on - i used to just browse but i figure its better if i actually get stuck in :)

    Back on topic though:

    There is no doubt in my mind that this sort of modular dj setup we are talking about here is the future, this would enable users to build their own features right into Traktor. Less time could be spent trying to deliver a single fit that makes everyone happy (thats never going to happen) and instead allow us to get far more hands on without having to reinvent the wheel ala Reaktor style every time we want to do something out of the norm.

    I beleive this could start attracting far more advanced users to Traktor and allow us to get seriously creative as opposed to constantly being stuck with the restrictions of the program.

    Reaktor is seriously time consuming and takes away from the music, however a hybrid approach inside of traktor that allows the user to edit the program in a modular fashion would not consume as much time (or CPU) and help to keep the focus on the music which is very important.

    Perhaps Traktor could come with a watered down version of Reaktor built in and if the user also owned Reaktor this would unlock more features inside of Traktor. This would increase the profit NI makes on Traktor and make this alot more worth while from a biz perspective.

    I personally wouldnt hesitate to go buy Reaktor if i knew i could easily use it within Trakor in this sort of modular fashion.
     
  15. groovewhiz

    groovewhiz Forum Member

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    +1 from me

    + a modular controller
     
  16. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

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    2,116
    I think TENMEN's thread is more concerned with modular software units ie-a graphical representation of code that somewhat resembles hardware units ..

    Are you talking about modular harware-midi- controll?

    I think this is completely off topic but ... it raises the question of instituting midi control at the switch and trigger level as an input device and as the actual representation of that input device in a virtual module platform.

    If any of you have looked at the stantondj site ovet the past few months there were some threads surrounding a controller design contest modular controller building blocks were an idea that came up often.

    There are some nice concepts being developed such as the little phyisical computer cubes that manipulate software elements based on thier location in space and in relation to each other. somthing like this would be anice adaptation for creating a modular software interface. When you move the pieces around on the desk the software configures itself automatically to represent the phsycial locations of the controls.

    walla
     
  17. Lancellot

    Lancellot NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    447
    +1 from me as well.
    I believe Bento San already included me in his count....:D

    Modularity is the future.
    We see what the Abes have come up with their collaboration with cycling74, and we can only guess what their announcement will be regarding the Serato joint-venture.
     
  18. groovewhiz

    groovewhiz Forum Member

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    hey walla, I know it's about software, and that's what I added my +1 for.

    The modular-controller was just an add-on, as I thought it kind of fits, because if you use a modular software to create the interface/features/worlflow you want, then you also want your hardware-controller to match that functionality/workflow ...

    Haven't seen that contest, just the one on djforums where I participated as well. There were a bunch of modular concepts posted in that contest as well.

    Anyway, to get back to the topic my vote is for a modular software!
     
  19. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

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    2,116
    oh yea... I wasn't saying nay .. at all ! I have an inherant vocabulary of sarcasm concerning off topic posting .. < as I am the most notarious of off topic and highjacking behavior that their could possibly be an example of. < and I guess of am I proud of it .. not hitting the back space key no no no.

    http://www.djtechtools.com/2009/02/16/the-future-of-control/

    http://www.djforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1858067#post1858067

    This is what I was talking about:

    I am seeing the interface being customizable as we are discussing with elements of modular hardware helping to define and control the design and layout process.
     
  20. groovewhiz

    groovewhiz Forum Member

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    I feel ya. Always trying to resist off-topic and highjack posting and ..., oh no, it's happening again ...

    this was my entry (trying to be somewhat commercial i.e. not totally modular) http://www.djforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1867376&postcount=19
    kinda weird that the most basic entry of them all won the contest

    Luckily modular software is easier to create than modular hardware. I'll post some of my ideas later.
     
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