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Rounds suggestion

Discussion in 'REAKTOR' started by Philippe, Oct 12, 2014.

  1. Philippe

    Philippe NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,297
    May be I missed it, but could not find a way to easily exchange sound/cells between Rounds snapshots. Could be great to be able to build a library of cells, and quickly import cell presets into new patches...

    Anyone agree ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. salamanderanagram

    salamanderanagram NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    3,446
    i've been thinking about this as well.... this should be added, it would make things way quicker.
     
  3. Philippe

    Philippe NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,297
    How would you see it ? Not obvious within the Reaktor interface...
     
  4. salamanderanagram

    salamanderanagram NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    3,446
    i'm not sure i understand the question?
     
  5. Philippe

    Philippe NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    1,297
    I was wondering how it could be implemented...
     
  6. salamanderanagram

    salamanderanagram NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    3,446
    i wish i knew... my guess is it would be quite difficult without being max zagler (the author of rounds). there is too much going on for me to follow it all, i'll have a look next time i'm in the structure but i don't think it will be easy.
     
  7. stonerich

    stonerich New Member

    Messages:
    2
    It would also be nice to be able to copy sound/cell settings to another patch/preset/snapshot, as in LuSH-101.
     
  8. toomanynates

    toomanynates New Member

    Messages:
    9
    For sure, p1afff, I absolutely agree with you. This feature would move Rounds out of the "super cool" category and into the "totally rad" category.

    In NI's other synths, it makes sense to simply save a snapshot. But Rounds is unique in that each snapshot can contain multiple "patches." I fully agree that Rounds needs a separate library of "cell snapshots" or "cell presets" that allows you to load different cell snapshots and save your own cell snapshots.

    I would LOVE to see a camera icon in the upper-left corner of the Digital controls and the Analog controls. By clicking on it, you could access a sub-menu that would allow you to load and save other cell presets from different snapshots.

    Rounds REALLY needs this. And to top it all off, Rounds should have an icon that looks like dice, that allows you to load a random cell snapshot. Other synths like Polyplex and Massive have powerful randomization features and Rounds needs it too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    6,647
    Erik Weigand creates in later times a macro-preset-system via list and event tables. You can load and save inside the macro. Have a look on side b of the following two blocks.
    https://www.native-instruments.com/de/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/9009/
    https://www.native-instruments.com/de/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/10753/

    upload_2016-12-29_3-9-11.png

    Here is a link to download the Reaktor 5 macro
    https://www.native-instruments.com/forum/threads/absynth-like-envelop-control.312883/page-2
    postet by Seoman303
    Extract the preset macro and implement them to Rounds in which macro your desired cell is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  10. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    6,647
    p1afff, you can do it by yourself. If every macro of a cell is inside an instrument save the snapshots there. It is a heavy work to do!
     
  11. Seoman303

    Seoman303 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    169
    This is an awfully tough work to do. Unlike other ensembles Rounds does not use stacked macros for each OSC-patch, instead each parameter is one multi-picture (not even knob) for one parameter for all OSC of one type. I.e. there is only one multi-picture for all analog semi-knobs, so IC-sends are no options. It is possible but will take some effort to implement

    The snapshots are stored as arrays within Snap Values. As each parameter has an index (in the structure always marked by '[]' within the wiring) and a related value (marked by '$'), snapshots are store accordingly with the index of the parameter being the index within the snapshot array. I have found two different places so far, one in the control-view macro with 1161 entries (seems to hold all relevant parameters for this purpose) and one in the sequencer-macro with 8 entries (has no connection to outside of the sequencer).
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Seoman303

    Seoman303 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    169
    To solve the problem would require a bit of tedious work:
    - write down the index of all required parameters
    - add a filter for each oscillator to store only necessary parameters within an event-table
    - on storing: convert the stored parameters of the selected oscillator
    - on reloading: re-convert the parameters and inject them right behind the snapshot-array

    An instrument that is parallel to the Snap Value could be implemented so rounds wouldn't need to end up in the user library...
     
  13. Paule

    Paule NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    6,647
    When all cells are in instruments what's about the copy/paste of it. Seems so it failed. Therfore are so much cells in one multi display.
     
  14. Seoman303

    Seoman303 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    169
    No, it is not failed. I have an idea. The patcher will indeed to be implemented as an instrument as there are several advantages to this.

    The current state of all oscillators has to be saved. For each parameter there will be one event-table, storing the value for instances of this parameter. Whenever Rounds changes the patch all parameters are sent out of the snap array, so the relevant parameters can be filtered out of the data stream. Changes of parameters results in an input of the snap array which can also be redirected, so GUI-changes will also be stored. Thus all sets of oscillator-patches are available in event-tables.

    Then there has to created a number of knobs, each representing a parameter of one oscillator-patch. They can be loaded with the values of the selected oscillator-patch using IC-sends. These knobs can actually be hidden, as manual modifications are not required/wanted. But they have to be available for snapshot-handling/randomization.

    And here come the advantage of the instrument-implementation: Storing patches can be done by storing snapshots of this particular instrument, saving the state of these knobs. This means:
    • 128x16 patches can be stored with free naming
    • Morphing/randomization of patches will be possible by using standard Reaktor-mechanisms.

    Loading these patches into round is easy as well, although it will be a bit tricky when it comes to morphing. I was already able to remote-control several parameters of a single oscillator-patch. There is a lot of tedious work (there are 41 parameters for the analog patches) but it is actually not as difficult as I thought. Quite the contrary, to be honest. The implementation of rounds relies heavily on data transmitted in the form of tag/value, sometimes combined in one value using flag-masks.
     
  15. Seoman303

    Seoman303 NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    169
    Finally done:
    https://www.native-instruments.com/de/reaktor-community/reaktor-user-library/entry/show/10819/

    First I tried to add it at the wrong place which led to different ranges between single patches. But I figured out where to put it best. Another thing was that I initially stored the state of all 16 synths in a table to be recalled before storing the snapshot but that was not good as it gave no advantage but required additional and useless user-interaction.

    Now the parameters are used from the selected synth and can only be sent to the selected synth. For easy access to the stored snapshots, I have added Eric Wistrands ‘Snap Switcher’. This way the snapshots of the synths are available within the patcher-GUI while the snapshots of Rounds can still be accessed. With small modifications the snapshots can also be saved and the recall-button will overwrite changes within Rounds if a patch shall be loaded into multiple synths. (If drag&drop does not work any more for example...)