"Save as" in File Menu on MK3 is gone since 2.8.3

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by Frank P., Jun 25, 2019.

  1. Frank P.

    Frank P. NI Product Owner

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    Whats up? When I start a new Projekt and want to save it, I alway pressed file and than save as. but the "save as" is gone in 2.8.3
    Any Idea?
    :)
     
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  2. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    Not for me it hasn't (win 10 Pro 1903). Working as normal
     
  3. Frank P.

    Frank P. NI Product Owner

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    on the MK3 controller?
     
  4. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    I don't have an option in the Display for save as but if I hit shift and File Save it opens up the save as window in Maschine.
     
  5. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

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    You are absolutely right.
    According to the manual p.162 there was a save as option.
    This has now been changed to a save option.
    But you can use the save copy as a kind of save as function.
    You cannot change the name of the project, but a number will appear after your saved project.

    Example:

    NEW> Nameofproject.mxprj
    FILE> SAVE COPY> Nameofproject - 1.mxprj
    FILE> SAVE COPY> Nameofproject - 2.mxprj

    René
     
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  6. Kymeia

    Kymeia NI Product Owner

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    Save as is always better - let's not all be forced to adopt MacOs style idiosyncracies
     
  7. D-One

    D-One Moderator Moderator

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    "Save As" still exists, however, it now requires Shift+File/Save like tempsperdu already mentioned. I guess they forgot to add it to the release notes and Manual. (I'll tag Mick @ NI so he is aware, editing release notes is something I leave for the NI officials)

    I actually prefer it this way because it offers an option between saving with a temporary name that does not require any keyboard/mouse interaction and one that does but requires using peripherals.

    That's extremely subjective, what is always better is a choice. Save As or Save Copy has nothing to do with OS afaik...
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2019
  8. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    There is actually a distinction between "Save As" and "Save Copy". Some apps (such as Logic) have both. "Save As…" means "save the current file under a new name", while "Save Copy" saves a copy under a new name, but keeps the original file open. In other words, after you use "Save As", the currently open file is the new one you just created, but after "Save Copy", you are still editing the original file (a normal "Save" will update the original file and not the copy). The latter is for making manual backups. (You might think "what about calling it 'Export' instead?", but Export implies are you saving to a different file format.)

    Apps that have both:
    • Logic Pro X ("Save As…" and "Save A Copy As…")
    • Adobe Illustrator ("Save As…" and "Save a Copy…")
    • Adobe InDesign ("Save As…" and "Save a Copy…")
    The Maschine software still says "Save As…" in the File menu (there's no "Save Copy"), because in that case it can prompt you for a name. The "Save Copy" command in the hardware creates a new copy by appending a number to the current file name (or incrementing it, if it already ends with a number). But the key point is that Maschine's "Save Copy" command is actually doing a "Save As…" with automatic naming; the new copy becomes the currently open file, which is different from what "Save Copy" means in all other software. The established UI convention for indicating a command will not prompt you for more input is to simply remove the ellipsis, i.e. "Save As" instead of "Save As…". But "Save As" without user input doesn't make any sense ("save as what?"). I think NI already picked the name that makes the most sense, even if it behaves differently from "Save Copy" in other software.

    I know…I'm a huge nerd. This is also what I do for a living (I'm a UI designer/developer).

    Side note: "Duplicate"
    Some apps have a "Duplicate" command instead, which creates a new, unsaved copy of the current state of the file, such that the original and copy are now both open at the same time. This seems to be a modern replacement for "Save a Copy"; the behavior is less confusing, and I haven't noticed any apps that have both "Duplicate" and "Save a Copy". Holding down the [option] key changes the command to "Save As…". It believe this is a macOS convention (probably introduced with the auto-save features in OS X 10.7 "Lion"), as the behavior is the same in both Apple and third-party apps.
     
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  9. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    Shift + File/Save is just "Save" (same as before). It only prompts you for a name the first time you save a new project.
     
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  10. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

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    Correct.

    René
     
  11. Mick @ NI

    Mick @ NI Banaholic NI Team

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    Bingo! Just checked this with Kai and you are absolutely correct :thumbsup:
     
  12. Frank P.

    Frank P. NI Product Owner

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    I don't understand why this was changed ?
    I hoped that they added a way to give the new file (when I press save as) a name on the controller.
    but instead they hide "save as" ?!?
    :)
     
  13. Frank P.

    Frank P. NI Product Owner

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    ok, shift+file = "save as" when pressing the first time.
    thank you !
     
  14. Stormchild

    Stormchild NI Product Owner

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    It's really just "Save". The first time you save a document in any software, you're always prompted for a name. This is how Shift + File/Save has always worked. It's not new in 2.8.3.

    You can still "Save As" from the File menu on the computer. I don't think there's a lot of value in having a "Save As" button on the controller, since you have to go to the computer to enter the name anyway.
     
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  15. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    I'd never even looked for a serve as on the controller because it seemed pointless with no ability to name.
     
  16. Mick @ NI

    Mick @ NI Banaholic NI Team

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    I checked this with Kai @ NI and this unintentionally sneaked in here. Read: this will be reverted back to its original state
     
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