Traktor Pro Tutorial #2 - Syncing with Ableton Live

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR PRO / TRAKTOR SCRATCH PRO' started by Thomas @ NI, Feb 27, 2009.

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  1. Thomas @ NI

    Thomas @ NI Administrator NI Team

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    1,576
    Hi all,

    Here is the second PDF tutorial, this time about the popular topic of syncing Traktor Pro with Ableton Live.

    Regards, Thomas
     

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  2. sijaffer

    sijaffer NI Product Owner

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    116
    Hey Thomas,

    Nice document, but what do you do if the tempo goes out of sync when you change the sliders on the players to change the tempo. I think, since Traktor changes the BPM in fractions of seconds, instead of whole numbers, the change in tempo (changing the pitch slide on the player/controler with "key" enabled in traktor) causes Ableton to go out of sync.
     
  3. SirComeAlot

    SirComeAlot NI Product Owner

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    29
    Excellent! Thanks for posting this!

    We need more like these,

    how about setting up 2 laptops both with TPRO, and syncing that up in various ways...?

    Cheers:D
     
  4. rainerh

    rainerh NI Product Owner

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    2,465
    the document is nice, but it doesn't tell the whole story

    thats how midi synchronisation works:
    the midi clock sender sends 24 tick signal each quarter note (=beat). the midi clock receiver must translate the number of received tick signals back to BPM
    for 128 BPM 3072 tick signals needs to be sent each minute, i.e. the tick interval is 19.53125 milliseconds

    to get a perfect sync
    - traktor needs to be able to send the ticks excatly in these intervals, and
    - there must be no delay or latency on the side of the connection, and
    - live as tick signals receiver must be able to translate the ticks perfectly back to BPM

    i did several test the last days to see how good this works using different scenarios:

    - TP as sender (120 BPM) and live as receiver, the BPM value in live fluctuates between 118.44 and 121.93
    - a 3rd tool as midi clock generator and both TP and Live as receiver, TP stays close to 119.xx and the fluctuations in Live were similiar to test case 1
    - using a 3D as MIDI clock sender, TP stays again close to 119.xx, but the intersting thing was that in this case the Live BPM stayed quite stable between 119.7 and 120.2

    my conclusion is: using a hardware MIDI clock generator delivers better results, and the TP-Live synchronisation as it is now is maybe not really an option yet, or it is only then an option if you can live with the constant tempo changes in live.
     
  5. SirComeAlot

    SirComeAlot NI Product Owner

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    29
    Interesting...

    Does it matter if you use a midicable or midi over lan?

    How about syncing TPRO to TPRO?

    Would be dissapointing if you need extra hardware to make TPRO do what it says it can:| . Or maybe it's Live that's not accurate...:confused:

    Maybe I should look into having my nuo4 send midi then...

    Cheers
     
  6. BentoSan

    BentoSan Forum Member

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    85
    Midi sync is terrible - i suggest to all of our members on the djtechtools.com forums just to manually set the BPM and if they need to do tempo changes to assign one knob to both programs tempo.

    Change the tempo range in Ableton to the same tempo range as the same tempo on as Traktor (40bpm to 300bpm). Now when you turn that knob both programs tempo will change in time with one another and be set to the same tempo. The sync will drift a little when changing tempo but not nearly as much as midi syncing does, you can then use Abletons nudge functions to keep it in time with Traktor.

    If your doing tempo changes with midi syncing its absolutely terrible and you will trainwreck - im not saying this is the perfect solution but it the best method i have discovered.

    Now if we want a truely decent sync between Ableton and Traktor Ni is going to have to implement some work around functionality.

    Theres a decent tutorial here that can be used to sync Ableton to a video in Isadora - http://www.digitalfunfair.co.uk/avsync.htm

    Im pretty sure a similar technique like this could be used, instead of using a whole track a 4 bar looping message could be sent from Traktor to Ableton which would then interperate this information to form a sync between the two programs. This would take some work on NI's behalf but it would give us a much more solid sync between the two programs than a midi clock allows.

    Also if you want to route your audio from Traktor into Ableton id suggest reading this article.

    http://www.djtechtools.com/2008/04/04/smart-mixing-traktor-with-ableton/

    Hope this helps some peeps out :)
     
  7. acg3_Tf

    acg3_Tf New Member

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    34
    I was looking forward to this tutorial for some time in hopes that it would show me the errors of my ways.

    Nothing has changed though and my orignal findings from the tests that I ran are now confirmed by Rainerh. Confirmation that I do appreciate Rainerh (thanks!) but it's dissapointing this doesn't work.
     
  8. dj_manos

    dj_manos New Member

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    2
    error sync

    Hello,
    I have one problem. When i try to sync my traktor pro to live, i have two differents values. TP is at 130 bpm and Live detect 240 bpm. I should put the bpm at 70 bpm on TP to have 130 bpm on Live.

    After i try with my old traktor 3 and all is good. Perfect sync.

    How can i do ? Please help.
    Thanks for all
    best regards
     
  9. nickecho

    nickecho NI Product Owner

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    130
    Try sortkey with x2 , :2 ..This Happens on every song would like to sync?
     
  10. dj_manos

    dj_manos New Member

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    I don't know this function :"Try sortkey with x2 , :2"

    I use the master clock int and i have try in manual.
    The bpm on traktor is ok. My song is at a good bpm. But in Live it isn't.

    Should i stay on traktor 3 ? I really prefer Traktor pro for beatmashing.
     
  11. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

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    2,116
    has anyone tried sending a tap command to traktor from a looping midi channel in LIVE.
     
  12. trankui

    trankui NI Product Owner

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    143
    ...might work when you use internal playback, but when you use timecode vinyl - forget it. I wouldn't rely on the master bpm counter at all.

    what I use is the MIDI out of my evo5 (which has a bpm-counter that's easily comparable with those found on redsound loopers). this actually works pretty well, but what you'll also need is two pads/buttons mapped to master pitch bend inside ableton.
     
  13. coszmin

    coszmin Forum Member

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    31
    all this because of lack of a traktor VST plug in
     
  14. R.BeLLZ

    R.BeLLZ Forum Member

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    I dont get the point of this. why not just mix in ableton or in traktor. why put them together. i think whatever effects traktor can do, can be done in ableton on its own. the only thing i would use this for is to maybe record each of the decks into seperat audio tracks in ableton and then make the "ultimate mix" with some post editing. (well i guess u can do some remixing with it, but then again, why use traktor too)
    I mean if ur mixing and dj skills are top notch, u can accomplish a great mix in traktor. jus my opinion.
     
  15. DjMediUm

    DjMediUm New Member

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    7
    Hi there...
    i have been watching few tutorials but still can' t get it to work.
    I'm new to this and this cross patching get me very really confused.
    Can you output traktor sound to Ableton using Hercules Rmx only,
    or do you need and extra external sound card... or can it be done with rmx only via soundflower.

    I think it would have been better to have a feature to import 3rd party filters into trakor, like freeframe plugins into modul8 vj software.
    Any input will be great.
     
  16. signaturex

    signaturex NI Product Owner

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    2,116
    if you wanted to use abletons' channels and efx post-traktor. Jack osx or soundflower would be a good virtual patch cable.

    You would select the virtual patch as your output device in traktor and then select it as the input device in ableton. Then select the hercules as the output device in ableton. Ableton allows you to use seperate soundcards as input or output devices. If you were using the four decks in traktor you could mix them in ableton onto the sub/mix auxillary busses and then use the direct channel output on the busses .. this would allow you to mix four decks out of the hercules' two stereo channels.
     
  17. DjMediUm

    DjMediUm New Member

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    Thank you
    i think i got it right....
     
  18. bobbyduracel

    bobbyduracel NI Product Owner

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    418
    I used Live and TSP the other night for a show (had to split between two computers---no Pro yet) and I had the best success manually triggering the apps and manually entering BPM info into Ableton. The sync is choppy, and with the timecode YES it completely stinks.

    I used a PadKontrol to control one of the decks, with the Maschine-esque layout I made, so I could nudge and jump around, sync, loop, etc and ran Live on the other machine independently. I triggered Live with the Maschine controller (sometimes having to re-trigger to get it "just" right), but it worked well that way. It wasn't any more tricky than mixing two records. Maybe much less tricky.

    The turntable rested there (just 1 for all 4 decks) in case I felt the urge to scratch or adjust manually. It worked well enough.

    No trainwrecks.
     
  19. Femmebots

    Femmebots New Member

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    2
    Midi clock is not working properly...
    I use traktor scratch pro for my gigs but midi clock feature is nearly useless.
    Torq 1.5 Midi beat clock works perfect in the same setup.
    I love Traktor scratch, I hope this feature will be fixed soon.

    I forget to say hello to everybody this is my first post in the forum.
     
  20. fleater

    fleater NI Product Owner

    Messages:
    274
    Guys,
    Is it possible to route sound through Soundflower using both Ableton and TSP as per attachment. I see from Soundlower web page that you can mix audio channels virtually.........
     

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