Traktor Scratch and old FS2 amp (yeah again...)

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR SCRATCH' started by nik39, Apr 2, 2007.

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  1. FunkyRob

    FunkyRob Forum Member

    All This is making my freaking head spin.

    I am happy with my Traktor 3 / FS2 setup. It's gotten me through a lot of parties.

    It just irks the hell out of me that I'll never get any software updates for as long as I live. :angry:

    I started with FS1, FS1.1 (never installed it), then 1.5, then FS2, then Traktor 3 when Musicians Friend was offering it for $99.00. So I've forked out a lot of cash for this stuff. So I'm in no hurry to "crossgrade" for something I've already got.

    I just wish the 2 companies would come clean and explain exactly WTF happened.

    I was just looking at Stanton's website and it still says this

    So what the hell is up with that?
  2. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

    Just out of curiousity I would like to hear more on what makes the A8 and traktor scratch solution a far superior product that would warrent me spending another $449 for this solution. From a hardware point of view I do not see any overwhelming reason why the A8 is worth this kind of money. I am still unable to control 4 decks simultaneously with this solution... I still have to toggle decks when using Traktor 3 just like my FS2 system. All I am seeing thus far is more marketing hype from NI and a 2Khz timecode scheme. I was fooled by such things when I purchased FS2 and then got burned so I would like to hear more on the subject.
  3. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

    1: It uses usb so it's much easier than the Scratchamp to plug into your laptop in the dark...

    2:It comes with software support just in case (heaven forbid) the software should ever not work especially well...

    3:It's smaller...

    4:You get to make things a real pain in the ass for yourself or any other DJ's still using the Stanton Scratchamp who plan on playing on the same system as you...

    Definately worth the $449US crossgrade price cause it's clearly the superior beast!

    (serious replies for rFSu are of course still welcome)
  4. Steveborough

    Steveborough NI Product Owner

    The real questions are...

    Can NI potentially make a profit stealing away those customers who would otherwise adopt Brand X's (unproven, bug ridden and still to be announced) software solution for FinalScratch Open. What will this Brand X software solution cost for existing and for new FS Open (SA2) adopters?

    Compare this to the cost of new vinyl (NI’s DVS) for existing FS2 /Traktor 3 owners (~$40) or to the cost of new vinyl + Traktor Scratch ($40 + discounted upgrade price, ~$119) for new FS Open adopters. Sales spurred by the fact that you will be getting SUPERIOR DVS TECHNOLOGY AND A ROCK SOLID PROGRAM by sticking with NI.

    I love and still make a good side-living with FS2 /Traktor 3.2.0X but would easily hand NI "some" dollars for better tech. IMO, this is the only way to persuade users like me and their monies as I have no real complaints with what I've got. Moreover I'm not willing to purchase a whole new hardware interface, vinyl, sell my old equip., re-learn hardware/software quirks & workarounds or wait for those quirks to be patched.

    NI has the potential to steal market share from all future FS Open partners. If they price their complete package (Audio 8, vinyl & Scratch) better than Stanton/Brand X’s future offerings (and other competing DVS solutions), they’ll have the new adopters market cornered. Furthermore, in adopting the above methodology can still make money from the existing "happy" FS2 user-base.

    Please disregard all of the above if SA2 is technologically unable to handle NI’s DVS algorithm.
  5. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

    Where have all the NI fanboys gone??? Do you all only come out to argue or talk down to new forum members? I was honestly hoping one of you all who are more informed about this product would give me valid reasons as to why this is a superior DVS solution. From a hardware point of view I do not see any reasons to make the switch... but I would really like to hear why it would be worth it to make the switch. What advantages would I have over my current FS2 solution using Traktor 3?

    With all the forum and thread moving maybe everyone is lost on where to actually post on this subject matter...
  6. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    best argument for traktor scratch is to simply try it, feel the tracking, listen to the much improved sound.

    we had a overwhelming positive feedback on the namm, on the remix hotel and also on the musikmesse, frankfurt (where i worked).

    even existing ssl users were impressed and stated that traktor scratch is tighter, and that's really even more i could dream about.

    i was always one of the lucky who had no real issues with my FS1.5 and later FS2 and then even later with traktor 2.6 and then T3 - but i would never go back to that combo.
  7. Steveborough

    Steveborough NI Product Owner

    NI claims their DVS is higher resolution than Stantons. I am almost sure the SA2 can handle whatever NI's DVS can throw at it and wouldnt mind payin for the new NI vinyl, THATS ALL. Not gonna buy the Audio 8 since i am happy with what i got, as we all should be (those with Traktor 3.2.0X & FS2)
  8. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

    So how would I go about feeling and experiencing this product without dishing out $449 US?
    I don't think I should have to dish out this kind of cash on a solution just to see how it feels.
    I don't understand how the sound quality would be any better as the output is the same besides the frequency response and beyond the fact that the source compression has more to do with the overall sound quality. Im sorry but I dont think $449US is worth just a better "touch" and "feel". I would assume the 2Khz timecode would be "tighter" and is what gives the product superiour tracking but I would like more reasons then just that as to why this product is better. All I am seeing here is more marketing hype and not an actual revolution or even a product evolution for that matter. Seems to me NI made a few changes in the product they co-developed with stanton and are now selling it as a far superiour product to the FS2 solution.

    I would agree with you Steve the FS2 hardware would have no problem using the Traktor Scratch timecode. Look at the comparisons of the two and tell me what you think. Even if NI certified the FS2 as a Traktor Scratch certified device, would you pay another $399US for just the software, 2 control vinyl records, 2 control CDs and a manual? I think I would pay the additional 50 bucks to get the A8 hardware along with it.

    These upgrade paths seem highly illogical to me... and only looks like NI wants to further their product line on the back of it's user's.

    At this point I dont think I will be spending any further money with NI... However what I would like to know is if I pay for the Traktor 3 upgrade now using the build that will work with my FS2 solution will I be able to get updates and the latest version of Traktor if and when I upgrade to Traktor Scratch at a later date? If not then I will forget about purchasing anything from NI...
  9. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    fairs, local equipment store, ...

    the readout is doubled. this improves the quality especially at very low speeds. i think i really have to record a turntable slow stop til the end for you.

    i got along very well with T3 and FS2 - but since i'm using traktor scratch i would never ever go back. especially for the hiphop and scratch djs, it's a huge improvement.

    what reasons should that be besides better sound, better hardware, good price, excellent crossgrade, familiar workspace, and new cool features?!

    revolution? no - we're having DVS systems already a few years.
    the hype is coming from the users feedback testing on the namm, the remix hotel and the musikmesse.

    indeed there were made MAJOR changes, lot of it not visible, like e.g. performance-wise etc.

    what is illogical? as current FS user you can make use of the crossgrade and then sell your beloved scratchamp for whatever you get and save some extra money.

    a) do you already own T3? if so, contact support for the last FS-compatible traktor version - like all of us 3 moderators already mentioned several times.
  10. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

    Native_girl no offense sweetheart but do you actually understand the technical aspect of why a 2Khz timecode is superior beyond what the marketing guys at NI have told you?

    I have seen all of the NI video's displaying the traktor scratch's overall tracking and slow speed spin down resolution. I am impressed with what I saw overall however I am looking at the specs of both systems along with the software changes and I am not seeing much of a difference at all. Certainly not enough to warrent the pricetag of $449 US and selling my FS2 system wouldn't get me far considering it no longer has software support.

    Please explain further why you would never go back to your FS2 setup with Traktor 3? Please further explain the MAJOR changes that were made in TS over the software solution provided with the FS2 system. I see that the workspace is fimiliar but what makes this product superior in overall function and performance? You are not giving me any real information as to why the Traktor scratch DVS solution is better then what I am currently using. Native_girl did you personally pay for the crossgrade offer to the Traktor scratch system? Did you sell your FS2 system and if so what were you able to get for this product in Germany?

    Please read what I have posted already... I have not purchased traktor 3 yet due to the fact that NI removed my ability to do so after December 31st 2006 without giving me any notice. I finally got a hold of NI support and am working on purchasing a copy of traktor 3 that will work with my FS2 scratchamp. Before I purchase this copy I would like to know if I will be able to get updates if I do switch to the Traktor Scratch solution. More or less I want to know if I pay for the Traktor 3 upgrade now using the build that will work with my scratchamp if I will be able to then receive updates when I purchase the Traktor scratch system? I dont feel I should pay for the upgrade to Traktor 3 twice because NI decided to no longer support the Final Scratch system I paid for. I'm sorry but I am having a hard enough time even swallowing the cost of the crossgrade offer to the Traktor Scratch solution. I still have not seen anything showing why the Traktor Solution is better.

    My local music stores do not even have one DVS solution on display for you to try. I was actually at the WMC in Miami on friday and I wasnt able to get in to see your product... but I would love to know when you will be in the area again showing off your product...

    Can we stop beating around the bush now and actually post some informative facts that support your claims???
  11. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    a good first step would be to NOT call me *sweetheart* anymore - because i'm not and never will be. really! bad! idea!

    yes i do. i'm in constant contact with the developers, and obviously i was interested why a new control signal would be better than the older and what makes the difference.

    if you're happy with what you have, just dont do it. there are still people around using FS1.5 - which i personally cant understand (except you're so broke for years you cant even buy food or pay the rent).

    sound & tracking. i'm gonna record some comparison sounds.

    a lot of them you cant see, like improvements on the readout and interpretation of the control signal. most of this kind of changes i dont recognize exactly, because it's been some time since the betatest, but i will ask our developers if they have some points handy.

    no, as betatester and forums mama and as such being a part of the whole support team, i obviously need to have one.

    i did not, but a few weeks before we had someone here that really got a reasonable price for his FS2... but my assumption would be that the price will go down constantly. right now - around 200 euro maybe?!

    traktor and traktor scratch are different products, as FS and traktor 2.6 - 3.2.0 (that were compatible with FS) were.

    the 3.2.0 is what you need for your FS2 (and that's what is installed still on my laptop).

    traktor 3.3 will have the TS compatibility like traktor 2.6 - 3.2.0 had the compatibility with FS.

    the traktor 3.3 update will be free for traktor 3 owners (AFAIK). any small updates will not cost anything, major upgrades (like from 2.x to T3) will be charged, of course, former T3 users will pay a smaller amount than a new customer.

    does that answer your question?

    where are you located? on the NI website there is a possibility to find a store in your near, does one fit your needs?
  12. Djarsennal

    Djarsennal Forum Member

    I understand *rapedFSuser* point on this one, there was a lot of hype on FS2 and it was a piece of garbage that a lot of people like me throwed money away on to, it seems like NI wa planning this for a long time and left us hanging, now we need to upgrade in order to get something that works and they are only giving us a month to upgrade at reduce price, not long enough to hear enough positive feedback to trust traktor again... for now i stick to midi and if I want to use my pioneers and scratch I take Torq with me.
  13. djDoring

    djDoring Account Suspended

    audio ak 1 sounds like a sb 16 soundcard so why the hell should audio dj 8 sound better ?

    same developer,same driver,same chipset,etc.
  14. crucial d

    crucial d NI Product Owner

    what are you guys on about? I am still using the SA2 scratchamp with T3.2.0.085 for gigs to great effect. It works for me, I've been using it for OVER 3 years and it has never failed me, doing 3, 4 & sometimes 5 gigs a WEEK. I agree that now the originally bundled Traktor FS software is old & clunky, but any serious DJ would have upgraded to DJ Studio as soon as they could. In the past I have used FS1 & FS 1.5 with the original 'hockey puck' then used the SA2 with Traktor FS, then Traktor 2.6, then moved up to 3.x

    Each time the soft was upgraded there were improvements, it is now a powerful combo. You can't point to Traktor FS & bag it because that was, like, 3 or more YEARS ago that it was first released. Also, keep in mind, part of the reason for all the drama was Apple's decision to move to Intel chips thus rendering the PPC upgrade path obsolete for the TFS line for Mac users. I suspect this snowballed into the eventual dissolution of NI & Stanton's arrangement.

    NI have now made further improvements to the capabilities of this type of system, for once it is a fully in-house solution from NI, Traktor Scratch is waaaay better timecode (yes I have tested it) and the hardware is a LOT smaller than the SA2 'tank' and more than a third less in weight. So, a lot of R & D and testing has gone into this product. NI can't just give it away. No matter how much you gripe, it won't change anything. If you want to buy T3, it is possible to get you a version of T3 which supports the old timecode. That system will work, & work well. But it is a dead end if you want to get any future updates. Sorry buddy, you will have to "cop it sweet" on this one. I think by now you have been amply catered for by members of this forum with relevant answers & information to your questions.
  15. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

    I'm glad you're so special!(btw,wasn't FS 2.0 released sometime earlyish 2005?Makes it kinda hard to have had well over 3 years of rock solid use out of it?)

    Believe it or not it has not worked so well for everyone!
    Mine has dumped me just about every time I've played out!
    I definately don't leave my records at home!
    If it isn't a regular vinyl playback completely buggering the timecode engine its the Scratchamp refusing to recognize after a computer switchover.IF it isn't the timecode deciding to out of the blue go into a L/R phase spazz requiring a computer reboot to fix it's the bloody loaded song's waveform in TDJS3 not clearing upon loading the next track...and on and on!
    I have the right to be bitter!I was sold this FS crap twice,and I have paid for upgrades.It has never worked properly and now I'm expected to dish out even more cash if I want fixes with the exact promises being made as in the 2.0 release that the new version is supposedly soooo fine!
    Not to mention we only get a month from when it goes on sale to get any real user feedback on whether or not it's just all the same BS again!
    How long is it going to take before enough people have it so that a healthy sampling of experience is available...about a month,at least!(besides the already I'm a NI beta tester and it rocks 'fanboys',of course)
  16. Steveborough

    Steveborough NI Product Owner

    Let T3.3 recognize the SA2 in DVS!!!!!

    Seems the only benefit to the A8 from a hardware perspective is its size. SA2 can resolve the higher res. timecode. NI just has to remove the bits of code that restricts Traktor to the A8 and the certified Mackie mixers. Basically what I ask is that NI certify the SA2. Would they if Stanton asked? They will not cannibalize their own hardware if they do this. They will make more money on crossgrade sales of just vinyl and software to the large user base of proud FS2 owners than with those willing to abandon their SA2 completely.
    To state more clearly (IMO), FS2 owners will shell out some cash for the vinyl/software upgrade (using their SA2 with NI timecode) Most FS2 owners will not purchase an A8, software & vinyl. Therefore certifying the SA2 makes more business sense. Not to mention a tenuous obligation to anyone who has purchased Traktor 3 and cannot upgrade past the still buggy 3.2.0X version.

    there... i think i killed the horse 4 times.
  17. djquartz

    djquartz NI Product Owner

    I have already presented this whole arguement long ago.

    I have no info from NI but I'm going to take a stab at this whole scenario. I've worked in IT long enough to see how the dissolutions end. This is a lot bigger than, NI stopped supporting the SA2 kind of situation.

    I have a feeling Traktor Scratch could have been the FS3 platform but Stanton didn't want to pay up for the R&D time.

    Stanton didn't like the fact that NI had the resources and platform already made to create their own package if they were fed up of dealing with Stanton.

    So now it has become a conflict of interest based on whatever terms were in the contract.

    Stanton having the upper hand at the time and not wanting to pay decides to muscle NI. So the quickest way to get users pissed off at NI was to end the contract and force NI to remove support legally.

    This now gets Stanton out of a financial commitment, puts NI in the hot seat with end user support and Stanton decides to put out a 'FREE' solution which could generate revenue for Stanton in hardware sales.

    So to avoid legal issues, NI decides to pull FS2 support. Why, because none of the end users are going pay NI's legal fees if Stanton ever were to get nasty. Stanton can and probably would sue NI if they breach this condition.

    Did NI get some experience with DVS technology since creating TFS, OF COURSE THEY DID!

    What.... did Stanton actually think that NI would never branch off on their own when they didn't have control of anything other than the software? And who's to say NI even had control of TFS?

    So what did NI do? What any other company would do if they were getting crappy support and being muscled in this type of situation.

    'If you want something done right, sometimes you have to do it yourself'

    That's exactly what they did.

    Unfortunately that comes with a price tag.

    IMHO, I fail to believe that Stanton couldn't have negotiated a contract with NI. Pride and money got in the way of that.

    But at the same token, NI probably had enough and didn't want the Final Scratch name on anything after what has happened over the last four years.

    What I could possibly see happening is SA2 support in Traktor 3.3.x but not the Traktor Scratch product because they are direct competitors now.

    Traktor Scratch is here to kill FS2 now really and truly from a business standpoint.

    Traktor has been a product for many years now before FS even existed.

    On the technical side of things, NI naturally has to push their own platform FIRST.

    This way they can find out what the possible problems are, sales revenue, etc, etc...

    So Traktor 3.3 could be where SA2 support is reimplemented and a new upgrade kit will be offered. However, this is just speculation and should not be taken as gospel.

    NOTE: These are just my thoughts on the matter, I have no official infomation whatsoever.
  18. crucial d

    crucial d NI Product Owner

    aahh sorry guys that should have read 'over 2 years'

    was pretty late last night when posting. apologies.

    anyway, my point was, in technology terms that is a fair amount of time.
  19. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

    I long as you weren't one of the poor sods who purchased more recently...
    ...or one of those poor sods who could never quite get the product working dependably!

    Quartz,your hypothesis is a good one though I wish we had the pleasure of knowing exactly what happened from the source.Seems like we are a little too conveniently left in the dark
  20. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

    i have to admit i cannot complain about my scratchamp.

    i was using a pre-series model for a very long time and some time exchanged it, because the record out has been broken from the beginning on one channel and i needed it working.

    besides that, i cannot remember any serious problems during that time - FS2 has been a big improvement for me compared to FS1.5 and i loved to use the additional features later on traktor 2.6 - the beginnng of T3 was a bit rumbling, so i updated to T3 quite some time later.

    please dont forget - i might be a betatester and all, but in the first place, i'm a dj!

    i'm not under pressure to say something positive, if i'm not feeling it.

    @ quartz: since the scratchamp2 is in the same price segment like the audio 8, i'm pretta sure, your scenario won't happen.
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