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Traktor Scratch and old FS2 amp (yeah again...)

Discussion in 'TRAKTOR SCRATCH' started by nik39, Apr 2, 2007.

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  1. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

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    Sorry to chap your ass there sweetcheeks... I was only using it as a term of endearment and fully withdraw the comment. Would you prefer for me to refer to you as the windbag I truly think you are?

    You wont get far going toe to toe with me...
    Beyond that you still have not given one solid fact as to why this is a superior product. All I am reading is more fluff and filler, and no factual statements regarding why this product is superior. If you are in such personal contact with the developers I would think you could easily ramble off 3-4 solid facts as to why this product is superior beyond a better timecode.


    Your right I should just bend over and take it like a man... but before I do please point me in the direction of the relevant answers & information to my questions the moderators on this forum have given me. I have only been given the run around since I posted... between having posts moved, removed and threads closed I have been muted in typical forum fashion. They know the score but they dont really want to face the music...


    I agree with your statement completely as this would at least show that NI is the company who really wants to help its userbase and not screw them over. However from what I have seen thus far I doubt they will do so considering they failed to even inform it's userbase of this whole situation.

    Look at the cost of the Traktor Scratch upgrade kit for the "certified mixers" which is $399US for just the software and timecode control vinyls/CDs. Sounds fair to me!

    With their "crossgrade" and upgrade pricing I would assume NI is the greedy one of the bunch in this while blunder... and plans on developing this new in house product on the backs of it's userbase. We foot the bill for the R+D since NI and Stanton could not work together on it... how sad.

    DJquartz I do appreciate the other point of view you provided and do feel you provided many valid points. However I feel that the only one profiting in this while scenario is NI plain and simple...
     
  2. Spyral

    Spyral NI Product Owner

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    Can we just ban him plz? He's kinda gettin annoying.... :/
     
  3. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

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    LOL! Yeah lets sweep it all under the rug... that has been the overall sentiment from NI thus far.

    Which is partially my point...

    Lets not inform the userbase that we are developing a hardware replacement product for the one you recently purchased but we no longer support software wise!

    I will not be going anywhere...
     
  4. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

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    Nobody's forcing you to read or reply...

    I don't know if any of y'all recall but *rapedFSuser* actually began his/her posting career here with tastefully posted,carefully worded non abrasive comments.
    It's no wonder though that all the BULLSHIT around here can cause someone to slightly lose their composure!
    I speak for myself here too...
     
  5. Spyral

    Spyral NI Product Owner

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    My apologies....
     
  6. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

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    You are correct... I have never once taken a tone with anyone until one was taken with me. I tend to be a reactor and not an actor in a sense. I, however will not and do not take **** from anyone especially after I have been screwed out of my hard earned money.

    My original postings have since been moved then closed and locked... I would assume to suppress those logically thought out comments. I was then told to continue the discussion in this thread to avoid FURTHER confusion...

    We certainly dont want any logical or thought out discussion regarding a subject matter that could possible cost NI sales.
     
  7. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

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    116
    According to a supposedly real person at NI as to why the new timecode cannot support the SA2:
    (first time I ever had a non cut and paste reply from support,and it was still as equally dry and uninformative)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------the answer for this is quite simple: \"Stanton Magnetics has however issued, and never retracted, a legal statement that has forced Native Instruments to remove FinalScratch timecode compatibility from the TRAKTOR platform. The announcement of the \"FinalScratch Open\" program in January 2007 has not relieved Native Instruments from this specific legal constraint.\"
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Could we have some more details as to WHY please!?
    There are still some rather conflicting facts between

    Stanton's Statement:
    http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?f...yToken=97e86143-a6c1-40c6-b962-1e1f36d6ea8cML

    and NI's Statement:
    http://www.native-instruments.de/index.php?id=6194&ftu=9080efd4bc3f3b1&flash=9

    My further email inquires were not responded to.

    This is really what all the conflict revolves around.Well that,and users not being properly informed as to the product being dropped by NI.

    So how about a clear concise explanation of EXACTLY why Stanton says they can and NI says they can't!?
    If anyone can clear this up without skirting around the issue with vague sweep it under the rug inconclusive comments I'll gladly drop this discussion!
     
  8. sleizure

    sleizure Forum Member

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    210
    Deckadance works great with the Scratchamp and supports the Old FS2 records - with far better performance than I ever got with any version of Traktor. Even has a feature that allows you to hear the phono side passed through to the line in (great for those using vci-100s as their sole mixer and want to perform some trickery).

    I have been burned by one side or the other not entirely sure. Which way, but sitting on a Traktor 3 Upgrade and a Perfectly working SA2 and not being able to take advantage of the features of either depending on which way you lean towards.

    Overall miffed - but that's business right?
     
  9. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

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    I have been hearing more and more about deckadance... I am only apprehensive about a couple of things.
    One being the sound-quality and two being the fact that it is only has 2 virtual decks limited to Windows OS.
    I am however interested in using it as a VSTi within ableton live. I have also looked into torq as a DVS but I am not impressed with the overall product mainly the hardware.

    My dream solution would be one that would allow me to run 4 virtual decks simultaneously with either DVS control vinyl/CDs or a midi-controller and or both. When I originally purchased FS2 I was mainly sold on the ability to use NI Traktor 3 with the scratchamp to control 4 virtual decks with Midi support (even if I did have to toggle).

    I would like to use vinyl control when I have the space to do so and use a midi controller when I do not. I would ultimately like the ability to mix 4 decks simultaneously whether it would be using a DVS system or a midi controller. I honestly do not understand why the A8 or the Traktor certified mixers would be unable to support this hardware wise.

    Maybe I should be looking into using a simple two deck DVS solution that is VSTi plugin capable... I would be limited to 2 virtual decks within the DVS software but could use ableton live and midi control to make up for the lack of simultaneous control within traktor. Any thoughts on this???
     
  10. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    26,779
    term of endearment? i doubt it.
     
  11. *FSuser*

    *FSuser* Forum Member

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    In all honesty it was and if you knew me personally you would know this to be true as I tend to use words like honey or sweetheart a lot when I talk. I more or less was asking if you understood because I was asking you to explain further... If you didnt understand the overall technical workings of something how could you then explain it in further detail properly?

    Enough detracking from the valid questions at hand here that have been asked by I and others... my apologies for playing into it.
     
  12. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    26,779
    yeah sure and the pope dances pogo.

    i already mentioned that a doubled frequency doubles the readout doubles the soundquality especially at low speeds. the more positions can be readout the more valid information can be interpreted and converted to a obviously improved sound.
    what's so hard to understand with that?

    there were big efforts made for the people using lower spec computers, these are underlying changes that you cannot see when opening the software.

    feature-wise it's a stripped down T3 - except for the special vinyl features, quartz already mentioned somewhere else (vinyl flip, scroll zone, absolute/ relative mode switch options etc.). dramatic reduced needle-drop times and the higly improved tracking

    what else does someone need to know who bought his FS2 14 (!) months ago, did not upgrade meanwhile to T3, to have at least understandable gripes, who got a mail where the end of FS support was announced (as quartz nicely digged out) and who has now the change to crossgrade to a highly improved system for a really good price - if you sell FS2, you might pay just around 200 bucks. that's a good price.

    the product speaks for itself, there is no need for me to convince someone. traktor scratch is a good product.
    even when the first review *from the wild* was posted here, you didnt stop. so i'm, really asking myself what interest you might have. all questions were answered more than once.
     
  13. Steveborough

    Steveborough NI Product Owner

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    Can any mods speak on (or pose the question formally to NI) why they will not allow Tracktor 3.3 or Scratch to use NI DVS with the SA2 from a technical standpoint. As stated above the legalities govern Stanton timecode. Please, no "business practice" replies. Thanks
     
  14. Spyral

    Spyral NI Product Owner

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    253
    Anyone in the Cleveland, OH area can come hear and see the prestige quality of this new amazing piece of art tonight. Just ask me for details. :)
     
  15. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

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    116
    And that's still more than I would expect to pay if I were allowed to use Scratch on the SA2!
    I figure,oh say $99 for the upgrade to the Traktor Scratch software if needed,plus of course the cost of new vinyl.
    And well,for TDJS3/FS2 users it looks like our FREE 3.3 update and new vinyl should cover all our needs until the NEXT PAID TRAKTOR UPGRADE or the physical limitations of the SA2 become apparent.

    native_girl,your points for why the new vinyl is clearly superior doesn't seem like it need any more argument.However,there is as of yet no compelling argument for wanting to drop my SA2 in favor of the audio 8,besides of course that the new improved vinyl doesn'trun on my SA2!

    And could someone please without sidetracking BS answer my previous inquiries several posts back?:

     
  16. Spyral

    Spyral NI Product Owner

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    253

    Two things:

    1.) The A8DJ runs on USB2.0, hence lower latency.
    2.) The A8DJ doesn't require you to flip switches, push buttons, turn off timecode, or adjust the gain for your timecoded vinyl or CD's. It does this all automatically for you. ALSO, 8in/8out sounds a lot nicer than what the SA2 has to offer. Oh, and did I forget to mention that if one of your needles goes mono on you, don't fret because it auto-detects and goes into emergency mono mode!? No more tracks stopping and/or reversing and playing backwards when this happens.

    Stability and functionality my friend....trust me, I'm an owner of Traktor Scratch and the A8DJ, and was a previous owner of Final Scratch 2 and the SA2...the differences are worth it.
     
  17. Spyral

    Spyral NI Product Owner

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    253
    Oh, and if you're that worried about the cost. In all reality I paid less than $110 to upgrade to Traktor Scratch...after selling FS2.
     
  18. Dijibuddha Magnetik

    Dijibuddha Magnetik NI Product Owner

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    116
    Well,you can pick up a NIB FS2.0 for about $400US with shipping on Ebay right now (no mention of discontinued software support,lol)
    So if I sold mine right now,overused records and all I might be able to squeeze $300US out of it to the right sucker.
    I assume that would cut me out of any upgrade pricing though because I would be transfering ownership to someone else before I had applied for an upgrade.
    If I waited untill after the upgrade,then there's going to be a flood of FS2's on the market,and probably a more widespread knowledge of the discontinued software.I bet people are going to be lucky to get $150-$200US per unit once the market floods with old FS2's.
    Sure I have a few friends who may be convinced to buy mine for a fair price...so long as I dont't first properly inform them of the known issues and that they will never see fixes for them!
    Mind you,most of these said friends have already seen me madly scrambling for records,rebooting computers tracing all wiring connections in the middle of a mix!SOme have them have even had the fortune of being begged to play because the system flat out will not work!
    Do really feel like pawning off this crap onto a friend!?
     
  19. Spyral

    Spyral NI Product Owner

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    However it is legal (straight from NI) to lease/sell your FS2 to someone and retain the registration whilst still purchasing Traktor Scratch. :)
     
  20. DJ Freshfluke

    DJ Freshfluke Traktor Mod Moderator

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    26,779
    guys, it's beating a dead horse.

    a)
    it's not a technical issue, it's a legal one.

    b)
    plus, then imagine: you are NI and from one minute to the other you're forced to pull out FS support out of traktor, which costs some money, because this takes some hours! a few weeks later that other company claims, that you *of course* can still support their device - would you then put another amount of time and therefore money into it, when you yourself have a better, more solid and competitive solution lying around? you do the math...

    c)
    regarding official stanton statements - ask quartz and nem0nic about the official stanton emails they got and how much of it was true.

    d)
    and finally, the SA2 is in the same price segment, therefore it's a competitor to the audio 8, therefore no certification, therefore no opening to it or anything related.


    i'm in discussions with NI always on the users' side and i discussed this issue several times with NI reps. regarding this issue i can absolutely understand NI's point, and i wouldn act any other way - however, i'm reporting the discussions we are having here anyways, regardless what i think personally.

    i'm damn sure, your wishes regarding the SA2 will never come true. we can discuss this over and over again, but it won't change anything. i understand that the situation is less than ideal and i can assure you that your grief is seen at NI.

    thing is, we have to go through it now - all of us, including the company that also isnt happy about it all. in the end, they lost quite some money also during that hassel - so we're all in the same boat somehow and i please you to keep in mind that whenever a door closes in life, another door opens.

    no birth without pain - but the energy of the pain we're feeling now is definitely worth it and can be turned into something real good - that's my personal belief.
     
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