You can now buy software only

Discussion in 'MASCHINE Area' started by ScottK, Jul 27, 2019.

  1. ScottK

    ScottK NI Product Owner

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    Last edited: Jul 27, 2019
  2. workmagic

    workmagic NI Product Owner

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    wow. i have no clue what the reason could be but thats very interesting.
     
  3. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

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    This has been possible for a while.
    This is especially for the group of people who have purchased the hardware second-hand, but did not receive any software.
    E.g. in a pawn shop.

    René
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    I doubt it's a cash grab but more something it didn't make any sense to many not to provide.
     
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  5. Seta

    Seta NI Product Owner

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    What makes not sense is owning a maschine without licence, as they are tied together; NI should cancel the licence of the previous owner and give it to the new rightful one, or at least contact previous owner to check if the hardware is stolen property (they do have the contact information).

    I can not think of any logical situation where the previous owner can keep the licence for himself. It is a cash grab, period.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,597
    Some people want to sell Maschine but retain the software and do so. There's also pawn shop buys etc where there is no software and finding the original owner may not prove possible or too time consuming to be viable. Previously people had to try and find someone willing to sell a licence or grab a cheap second hand Mikro or similar too get a licence.
     
  7. Seta

    Seta NI Product Owner

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    According to own Native Instruments rules hardware and software bundles are sold as a package and can not be separated. If you sell the hardware any associated software licences go with it.
    https://support.native-instruments....ying-a-Native-Instruments-Product-Second-Hand
    I am selling my MK3 right now and the only licence I have to transfer is the Maschine Mk3 licence, all associated licences will go with it.

    So what you say people do can not be done, at least legally; very easy for NI to cancel that registration ( first they should contact that person to check if it is stolen property as I said). For NI finding the previous owner can be as time consuming as checking to whom is that hardware registered and sending an email to the owner of that account ...+/- 5 min. Not detective work needed whatsoever

    So, still think this is a cash grab that makes no sense
     
  8. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    Regardless of legality there are numerous instances of people selling Maschine, Maschine Mikro without software and that's not going to stop anyone, especially anyone not really understanding from buying the product without realising.
    Afaics though the fact they are now selling the software seperate doesn't really tally with the linked regulations which I presume will suffer some ammendment.
     
  9. jbuonacc

    jbuonacc NI Product Owner

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    for years the hardware and software weren't "tied together" like they are now.
     
  10. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

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    This is one of the reasons that devices are sold without software.
    -
    Upgrade licenses

    If a product is removed from your user account, all product upgrades which are based on this product will become invalid. In this case, the NI Registration Support staff will contact you before deleting a product from your user account. For instance, if you upgraded KOMPLETE 11 to KOMPLETE 11 ULTIMATE, you cannot remove KOMPLETE 11 from your account without KOMPLETE 11 ULTIMATE becoming invalid.
    -
    After purchasing my MK3, I invested in a number of expansions and finally in the 12UCE hard disk. Suppose NI is coming soon with a new standalone controller. :) Then I buy this new controller, and sell my MK3 without serial number and software licenses. (this is nicely told to the buyer) The new user can then invest in the NI software, and my investments are not taken away by NI. (customer unfriendly and in my eyes theft)

    But it is of course crazy that NI works this way.
    One could do the same as with that other A brand.
    There you can register your second-hand device without interference from the manufacturer and you will have access to the associated software at no extra cost. (customer friendly)

    My 2 cents, René
     
  11. Seta

    Seta NI Product Owner

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    So what you say is selling the mk3 hardware but keeping it registered for yourself, very clever.. So the new owner will either have to buy a licence (something not possible before) or just download a cracked version (I am sure NI loves the idea)

    If you get a new controller it will come with its own software bundle (maschine, komplete select, etc..), so your Komplete upgrade would still be valid
    No one should be allowed to keep the licence of the hardware is selling, and NI should remove the registered software from the seller account. (once it is proved it is a legit transaction)

    Maybe this was allowed in the past, but it is not allowed anymore. NI should act accordingly with its own rules
     
  12. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

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    1,247
    NI really thinks otherwise,

    Upgrade licenses

    If a product is removed from your user account, all product upgrades which are based on this product will become invalid. In this case, the NI Registration Support staff will contact you before deleting a product from your user account. For instance, if you upgraded KOMPLETE 11 to KOMPLETE 11 ULTIMATE, you cannot remove KOMPLETE 11 from your account without KOMPLETE 11 ULTIMATE becoming invalid.


    René.
     
  13. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,597
    There are other ways such as buying a used Mikro or buying a licence off someone wanting to sell one. Quite a few people are like myself with 'spare' licences because they have more than one product that comes with the same software. ( I have 6 copies of Komplete Select for instance).
    It's arguable that by now allowing the sale of the software on it's own it's likely to lessen piracy rather than increase it.

    So in your world you have bought say for instance the upgrade to KU based on the Komplete you got with Maschine but you no longer have a use for the Maschine controller you shouldn't be able to sell that controller on because then your upgrade would become invalid or you should have to buy Select thus making your selling of the Controller possibly worthless.

    I would have thought the current rules may have to be ammended in some form now although maybe they could say that the rules only apply to copies of Maschine that were bought with a controller.
     
  14. Seta

    Seta NI Product Owner

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    If
    As far as I know Maschine MK3 comes with complete select, If you buy a new maschine it will also come with Komplete select so in case you own Komplete 12 UPG from select it will still work.
     
  15. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

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    1,247
    If a product is removed from your user account, all product upgrades which are based on this product will become invalid.

    René
     
  16. Seta

    Seta NI Product Owner

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    In my world if I sell TV I will sell it with its remote controller, not without it. If you buy a controller and comes with bundled software and then you upgrade that software; you can not sell that hardware and keep the upgrade benefits. As you have 6 copies of Komplete select, so you could sell 5 pieces of hardware with its licences, and still could use a Komplete 12 Upgrade from select

    As today you can sell the hardware without its bundled software, you can not send the new buyer just the registration code for the hardware, the software goes with it.

    So NI movement still seems like a cash grab to me, and people selling the hardware without the registration code are just ripping off people, you can call it whatever you want.
     
  17. Seta

    Seta NI Product Owner

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    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
  18. tempsperdu

    tempsperdu NI Product Owner

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    1,597
    I could indeed, I'm not arguing that nor am I selling anything. You are ignoring the fact that in real life people rightly or wrongly sell controllers without the software because they wish to still use the software and people still buy the controllers without the software regardless of whether it is defined as 'legal' or not.
    In your world you sell your TV with the remote.......cool
    But in real life there are many who don't and you getting upset about that isn't really going to change it.
     
  19. René must be Unique

    René must be Unique NI Product Owner

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    1,247
    Well, that doesn't seem that easy.

    René
     
  20. Seta

    Seta NI Product Owner

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    You are right ; there will always people willing to rip off other people, and that is never going to change. But a company should protect its customers, and if someone buys a piece of hardware and the company rules say that hardware and software combo can not be split apart that company should provide the software to the rightful owner (once he shows proof of purchase) and then remove the licence from the previous owner or even in some extreme cases cancel its account, as he broke the company policy or maybe worst.

    This is what started this thread and I still think the same, this is a cash grab movement from NI that contradicts its own policy and yet allows people to keep ripping off other people